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View Diary: Shocking! Catholics don't care what their Church says about ... anything (218 comments)

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  •  Please, any Catholics, I would love to hear (1+ / 0-)
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    sobermom

    your reasoning. I've been told that some stay because of the good things the Church does, but couldn't a reformed Church do the same good deeds without defending the bad?

    Anyone?

    "The Democrats are the lesser evil and that has to count for something. Good and evil aren't binary states. All of us are both good and evil. Being less evil is the trajectory of morality." --SC

    by tb92 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 07:19:00 PM PST

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    •  You posted this as I was writing my response (2+ / 0-)
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      tobendaro, TRsCousin

      What reformed church are you talking about?  Who would start it?  I used to go to Dignity but then they brought in liturgical dance and I was done.  It's ridiculous.  And eventually you end up with the same problem as now, who is to say that whatever reform church you're thinking of doesn't get taken over by crazy lay people?  It isn't like some of the evangelical churches that pop up here and there run by a minister who puts himself in charge.  The faith doesn't work that way.  I know that it is hard to understand from the outside.  But that doesn't mean that those who choose to reform from within are there supporting the hierarchy and the abuse of children.  Hardly.

      For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die--Ted Kennedy

      by sobermom on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 07:30:30 PM PST

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      •  I respect what you said in your other comment, (1+ / 0-)
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        sobermom

        and I don't mean to suggest that you start a new Church. I'm wondering what would happen if a hundred million American Catholics stood up, said "We will not allow evil in our ranks," and simply refused to acknowledge the authority of anyone who had done evil. If you only keep good, honest leaders, fight for control of the wealth, and take back your church. Of course, such a thing could go wrong, but if you are truly doing God's will, it would be bound to be better than what you currently have. I know it wouldn't be easy, in fact I assume it would be one of the greatest fights of human history. But isn't it the right thing to do?

        Fighting individually is good, but how much farther must the Church slide before it becomes clear that the cleaning that needs to be done must be on a huge, systemic scale?

        "The Democrats are the lesser evil and that has to count for something. Good and evil aren't binary states. All of us are both good and evil. Being less evil is the trajectory of morality." --SC

        by tb92 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 07:54:22 PM PST

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        •  Our archdiocese isn't perfect (6+ / 0-)

          but it is much improved.  We rid ourselves of the cardinal who allowed the child abuse to happen.  We had many priests defrocked.  We have strong institutional support for both the victims of sexual abuse by clergy, and for the prevention of further abuse.  We were able to rewrite the policies and procedures on how to handle any reports of sexual abuse by a priest.  I believe that much of that came from the day where the active members of parishes gathered together to make it clear that we were done with our former cardinal.  We presented such a clear and united front that our current cardinal came in knowing that the archdiocese was speaking as one voice regarding the protection of children rather than priests.

          I also have the current issue in my parish where, after being in the parish for 21 years, there has been turmoil in the past year with a couple who moved to the parish and want to take over everything.  They have caused a lot of problems in the parish and it has become divided in a way that it never was before.  So I'm living the experience currently of power-seeking-driven-by-ego-and-self laypeople.  Which is why I'm not hot for the prospect of a church run by laypeople, or wackos like William Donahue, any more than I'm thrilled with Rome.

          The Church also has a long history of corruption, which then is transformed by people who stay and fight the good fight.  It happened in the time of St Francis and it happened more recently in the time of Dorothy Day.

          And I see it in other institutions as well.  I have great Senators and Representatives who were elected by the people, but should I not vote because they have to work with assholes like Ryan, Boehner, and McConnell--should we all just form a new government because they're power-seeking-driven-by-ego-and-self lunatics?  I have limited power to have a say in who represents other states.  I also have limited power to make changes in the Church.  But just as it has been people who are corrupting a perfectly fine system of checks and balances, it is also people who are corrupting a perfectly fine religion of sacraments.

          I do what I can in my corner of influence fighting the good fight.  Just as I do with voting and working for candidates in my state, I show up and speak up and do what I can to facilitate change in my archdiocese.  And I do know that I have made a difference.  My archdiocese is far better than most on being transparent about the sexual abuse of children by clergy.  They still suck on choice, marriage equality, and focusing too much on conservative political causes.  But I'm not going to lose out on something meaningful because they're problematic.

          For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die--Ted Kennedy

          by sobermom on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 09:15:56 PM PST

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