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View Diary: Flight attendants and air marshals protest TSA decision allowing small knives on flights (178 comments)

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  •  yes, but (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greengemini, samanthab, Eyesbright

    after the flight attendants and pilots were stabbed to death on 9/11, knives were banned and we all said "I can't believe they were ever allowed to begin with."

    maybe it didn't happen "much" but then it did happen and in a big way.  Normally when an incident happens we learn from it and enact rules accordingly.  

    Maybe we should invoke the "we need good guys with knives to stop the bad guys with knives" argument.

    •  That was not Swiss Army knives n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ladybug53, Victor Ward

      Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

      by Dogs are fuzzy on Fri Mar 08, 2013 at 08:34:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Now let's talk about underwear bombers (0+ / 0-)

      ....or not.

      Jesus died to save you from Yahweh.

      by nolagrl on Fri Mar 08, 2013 at 08:41:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  No one was stabbed to death on 9-11 (3+ / 0-)

      You can't stab someone to death with a box cutter.

      But more to the point, I don't think anyone had their carotid artery slashed on 9-11, either.

      Before 9-11, if a terrorist held a sharp object to a flight attendant's neck the pilots (who though the flight was simply being hijacked) would open the door to the flight deck.

      After 9-11, if a terrorist holds a sharp object to a flight attendant's neck, the pilots might fly you to Havana (escorted by F-16s, of course), but there's no way in hell they'll open the (now heavily reenforced) door to the flight deck.

      Nowadays, the ban against penknives on airplanes does nothing beyond protect against random violent assaults, which hasn't historically been a problem on US airlines.

      •  Someone BLED to death.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        arabian

        ....on Flight 93.  You can do THAT with a boxcutter.

        If you hate government, don't run for office in that government.

        by Bensdad on Fri Mar 08, 2013 at 09:02:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Wrong (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dburn, Bisbonian

        Many people are killed or seriously injured with box cutters every year.

        Some get their throats cut ear to ear.

        What about my Daughter's future?

        by koNko on Fri Mar 08, 2013 at 11:38:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I didn't say otherwise. (0+ / 0-)

          I recognize that someone can be killed or seriously injured with a box cutter. My point is that that hasn't historically been a problem on commercial flights.

          •  Here's something you need to realize. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            arabian

            Things change.

            Forty years ago, I worked as a security guard at Honolulu International. We weren't armed, we only checked carry on lugguage, we only had metal detector gates.  

            But this was before shoe bombs, underwear bombs, plastic explosives and people who, instead of flying the aircraft to Havana, flew them into skyscrapers.

            So let's be a little careful about using the word "historically" to imply that because something never has happened, it never could happen.

            Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

            by Sirenus on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 06:57:20 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Uh, except on one spectacular day. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            arabian

            "We refuse to fight in a war started by men who refused to fight in a war." -freewayblogger

            by Bisbonian on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 12:45:38 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Read what I actually wrote. (0+ / 0-)

              Because what happened on 9-11 wasn't that a couple people got stabbed on an airplane. It was terrorists were able to take control of a flight.

              In the era of reenforced flight deck doors and pilots who won't open said doors under any circumstances, what is the unique danager that pen knives pose?

          •  until it happened n/t (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            arabian

            I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

            by blue drop on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 01:56:39 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  When? (0+ / 0-)

              9-11 wasn't the day that a bunch of people were injured with box cutters while flying. It was the day that four airplanes were hijacked using box cutters. That's no longer possible.

              So what makes penknife on airplane more dangerous than a penknife on super shuttle to the airport?

      •  So having the flight attendant's throat cut (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dburn, Bisbonian, arabian

        doesn't count?

        Nice.

        Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

        by Sirenus on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 06:49:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  We don't know exactly (0+ / 0-)

          what tools they used to kill the crews on 9/11.  It is assumed that some of the terrorists had box cutters, and it is also known that a couple of the terrorists owned leatherman tools that were not found with their belongings after the events.

          If you listen to Betty Ong's call to the ground on 9/11, she states that her purser and galley flight attendants were STABBED.  Those were her words.  Regardless, plenty of damage can be done with a small pocket knife if the victim isn't ready for it - or, like me, is 5'3" and 110 lbs and trying to fend off a nut job.  I'm sure I will have the help of other passengers - but why let the nuts have weapons, too?  And before you go on about my paranoid fantasies, I've had 3 instances of violent behavior on flights in my 23 years (and another instance of a pax having a mental break that didn't come to violence but was scary all the same.) Thankfully those instances "only" involved my fellow crewmembers being assaulted with the perpetrator's bare hands.  

          I do not agree with the logic that just because they are "small" knives, they don't matter.  Nor do I agree with the logic that so many other things can be used as weapons, so why not let ACTUAL weapons on board. Why make it easier for those who would do harm?

        •  You are deliberately misstating what I said (0+ / 0-)

          What is the problem that the ban on pocketknives addresses today? Because it's no longer necessary to protect against flights being highjacked.

          It can somewhat reduce the risk of a flight attendant or other passenger being seriously injured. But how often does that happen, except as part of a highjacking, which, due to other measures, is now bound to fail?

          What reason is there to believe that seemingly random violent acts will become a problem on flights if the ban is lifted?

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