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View Diary: Keystone XL: Will the State Department's shameful dishonesty become Obama's climate legacy? (182 comments)

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  •  Yes emissions are genuinely going down (1+ / 0-)
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    joedemocrat

    And that is a good story on many levels, but mostly it demonstrates that we do have policy options to  make a real difference in our impact on the climate.  And become a force for leading the world, rather than being an obstacle to international efforts.

    "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist."

    by oregonj on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 04:44:43 PM PDT

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    •  I was involved in the very outer-most orbit (2+ / 0-)
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      6412093, joedemocrat

      of sculpting emissions policy.

      mostly it demonstrates that we do have policy options to  make a real difference in our impact on the climate
      Here's basically how it went down.

      1) determined that moving coal-fired power plants from coal to NG would result in lowering CO2 emissions by x amount

      2) summed the total amount of NG available as fuel and project to be available as fuel, factored in price

      3) sculpted the regulations on the basis of those numbers

      So the truth is that the regulations were the result of the price of NG, not the other way around.

      It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

      by Fishgrease on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 05:09:05 PM PDT

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      •  Your story is completely implausible (0+ / 0-)

        given the timeline of the original regulations, the lengthy court battle, and the actions of several administrations.

        "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist."

        by oregonj on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 07:59:05 PM PDT

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        •  The most recent regs address (0+ / 0-)

          coal-fired plants almost exclusively, or at least appear that way after the fact. And what court battles? Recent? Within Obama's tenure as President?

          Besides that, how would those affect the consideration of NG replacing coal?

          Your contention is the implausible one. That regulations reduced CO2 emissions irrespective of demand and a replacement for coal.

          Do you think government said, you have to reduce emissions by x amount and the power generators discovered they had just the right amount of NG handy and at a just-so-happens-to-be low price? No. Cheap NG is recent and the EPA is proud of producing regs that demand only what is possible.

          It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

          by Fishgrease on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 01:53:56 AM PDT

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          •  July 16, 1997 (1+ / 0-)
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            Fishgrease

            Clinton enacted the soot rules on 7/16/97.  That had very little to do with the price of natural gas today

             http://clinton5.nara.gov/...

            The rules have been in court since then ( along with the Clean Air Interstate Rule, etc...)..

            BTW, FG, I think you are the funniest writer on DK.  Thanks for that.

            "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist."

            by oregonj on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 01:05:05 PM PDT

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            •  The surveys I completed (1+ / 0-)
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              oregonj

              and then the two conference calls I was on were nearly a year into the Obama administration. (I said outer orbit).

              No. Natural gas had nothing to do with Clinton era regulations. How could anyone think I was implying that? NG hit $16 per mmbtu in places back then. Today it is $3.50 where its been for about 3 years.

              Natural gas DOES have something to do with limits associated with current controls.

              One of the most frustrating things I've ever done is try to read some of those, btw, because they do apply to part of my job at times. It's the exceptions, oh jeez, the exceptions. There are exceptions where you can emit more tons of carbon and exceptions where you can emit less. Every one of those exceptions (my theory here, not my "story") is that those were fought for by individual Congresspersons and of course lobbyists.

              It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

              by Fishgrease on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 01:49:42 PM PDT

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