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View Diary: He's Not Even Pretending Anymore (209 comments)

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  •  Where's your call for Obama's impeachment? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    truong son traveler
    This is all the more reason (4+ / 0-)
    for Pres. Obama to stop perpetuating some of the policies and legal justifications of the Cheney administration, sometimes going even further over the line.
    If you think Cheney should be jailed for his abuses of power, then certainly Obama should be impeached for "going even further over the line," no?

    Why do you claim Obama is guilty of the same abuses and then fail to call for his impeachment? Why the double-standard?

    •  Impeachment? Are you kidding? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dirtandiron, wishingwell, The Marti, kurt

      He was just re-elected.

      Should we go back to another Cheney presidency?

      Since when is the party that embraces all the top tenets of Satan allowed to call the God shots?--wyvern

      by voracious on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 11:33:08 AM PST

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      •  I don't believe the President should be impeached. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        anastasia p

        I'm a very strong, proud supporter of this President.

        I'm asking why people who claim Obama is abusing his power to a greater degree than Cheney abused his are silent when it comes to calling for his (Obama's) impeachment.

        Nobody hesitated to call for Bush's impeachment.

        •  One word: Iraq (10+ / 0-)

          Lying us into war and then handing trillions of wasted taxpayer dollars to your contractor cronies seems pretty impeachable to me.

          That's the difference.  Iraq, to me, is THE impeachable offense along with the torture.  

          Obama may have gone over the line with drone attacks but that doesn't compare to the Iraq fiasco.

          you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows

          by Dem Beans on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 11:52:08 AM PST

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          •  This doesn't make any sense. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            newinfluence
            Obama may have gone over the line with drone attacks but that doesn't compare to the Iraq fiasco.
            When you say he may have "gone over the line," do you mean he broke the law? If he broke the law, he should be impeached.

            This double-standard makes absolutely no sense.

            If, as people claim, Obama has consciously and deliberately targeted innocent American citizens for killing, then I don't see why he shouldn't be impeached for that, or why there should be some arbitrary threshold.

            I'm highly suspicious of such claims when they're not verified with evidence.

            It's one thing to question the legality of his actions. That's fair.  It's quite another to definitively claim he broke the law without offering any corroborating evidence.  I think such claims amount to demagoguery.

            •  He clearly hasn't broken the law (12+ / 0-)

              The drone attacks go over my personal moral line, but that isn't a crime.

              I think Iraq was a crime and should have long ago been treated as such.

              you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows

              by Dem Beans on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 12:11:47 PM PST

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              •  Fair enough, and well stated. (7+ / 0-)

                I can see why drones make a lot of people uncomfortable even though I don't have a problem with their limited use. For one thing, drones don't kill any worse than bombs or guns do; and those weapons could certainly be abused. Also, we permit police to use lethal force on American citizens on US soil all the time, so I don't see why this or any other President shouldn't have that same power for use in extraordinary circumstances. Obama would be irresponsible to rule out the use of lethal force on Americans on American soil, and the idea that that shouldn't ever happen is absurd.

                My problem with drones is that, because they're unmanned, they create an adverse incentive for our over-reliance on them. OTOH, I can see Brennan's case that, if used judiciously, drones are a more ethical weapon than say a conventional troop deployment that would result in more deaths, or a less accurate conventional munition that would result in more death.

                I think (although I don't know this, it's just speculation) that Obama believes drones are useful to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons. I'm by no means a military expert or an expert on nuclear proliferation, but I believe there's a case to be made for that.

                •  you are ignoring the slope we are on (3+ / 0-)

                  you're for limited use of drones, including in the U.S. against U.S. citizens. B-fricking-S.
                  We cannot allow ANY President to have unchecked power of life and death.
                  We need to repeal the patriot act and need to at least put the FISA court back into the chain for approving wiretaps/email intercepts.
                  The way we are going it will not be long before anyone can secretly be declared an 'enemy of the state' and executed without any legal process at all.
                  It was only about 30 years ago that the FISA court was established and a lot of people then (including me) were upset about the creation of a STAR Chamber like court. Evidence heard in secret by a secret court with no real oversight by anyone. Now here we are talking about how it's OK for the President to kill U.S. Citizens in the U.S. without any oversight what so ever.
                  So glad I spent 24 years of my life protecting the Constitution when so many are willing to piss it away with such recklessness.

                  The Republican model for America is China. One party, corporations are one with the party and the workers are cogs.

                  by vet24 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 07:19:13 PM PST

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                  •  The power to use drones is not unchecked. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Ahianne, offgrid
                    you're for limited use of drones, including in the U.S. against U.S. citizens. B-fricking-S.
                    We cannot allow ANY President to have unchecked power of life and death.
                    You're falsely conflating the use of drones with unchecked power. The President can be impeached and removed from office if he abuses his power.
                    We need to repeal the patriot act and need to at least put the FISA court back into the chain for approving wiretaps/email intercepts.
                    I agree with this.
                    Now here we are talking about how it's OK for the President to kill U.S. Citizens in the U.S. without any oversight what so ever.
                    But it is legal, under certain circumstances. It's never OK, but it's not necessarily illegal.
                    So glad I spent 24 years of my life protecting the Constitution when so many are willing to piss it away with such recklessness.
                    Is it reckless for the President to order the shooting down of a domestic flight that has been commandeered by terrorists? Is it reckless for the President to use force on those who take up arms to rebel against the government. Both those are examples of the President using lethal force without due process.

                    I'm assuming from your handle that you're a veteran. I appreciate your service, and I respectfully disagree with your arguments.

            •  Frankly, this obsession will drones (0+ / 0-)

              especially the freakout paranoid fantasy about their use in the U.S. has so soured me on the whole topic, I automatically delete any emails about them and won't read diaries about them. Enjoy your dystopian pants-wetting, but I'm not participating in this drive to put Republicans back in power to fulfill your nightmares.

              Jon Husted is a dick.

              by anastasia p on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 12:14:18 PM PDT

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        •  Because Obama has a really nice smile? (0+ / 0-)
          I'm asking why people who claim Obama is abusing his power to a greater degree than Cheney abused his are silent when it comes to calling for his (Obama's) impeachment.

          "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand?" David Crosby

          by allenjo on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 07:43:37 AM PDT

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    •  Yeah, right (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      goodpractice, DuzT, offgrid

      I can see some poetic justice in a Republican House voting explicitly for articles of impeachment on Obama for carrying out the unconstitutional policies of the Cheney administration. The Senate would shoot it down, but the Congress could cleanse its soul by admitting that Bush and Cheney were guilty of crimes against humanity and forever tarnishing the honor of the United States, what was left of it.

    •  Horsepucky (0+ / 0-)

      It's attitudes like this that are why we NEVER get any justice. False equivalency to fuel our enemies, exaggeration to discredit anything we advocate for, eating our own to strengthen our opponents. Good work.

      Bush and Obama are most certainly NOT "guilty of the same abuses." If Bush was not impeached, on what absurd grounds would you impeach Obama? There is no double standard here, only willful blindness on the part of purity progressives that you will not have a perfect and just world by shooting everybody. You'll only put the real fascists in charge quickly.

      Jon Husted is a dick.

      by anastasia p on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 12:12:45 PM PDT

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