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  •  In painting all critics as anti-Obama (58+ / 0-)
    What do you foresee as the possible fruits of your criticism?
    You miss the point that the left has never walked in lockstep like the Republicans because factionalism is intensified then. Look at the Republican/Libertarian/Teabagger mess for example. Their adherence to rigid ideology created that monster of divisiveness.

    I support the President. I do not support all of his policies.

    "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

    by Horace Boothroyd III on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 12:33:04 PM PST

    •  Please re-read the diary. (38+ / 0-)

      I very purposely DID NOT In painting all critics as anti-Obama.

      I don't think we have an anti-Obama crowd
      That's the trouble with commenting as quickly as you did, I think.

      It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

      by Fishgrease on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 12:35:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This diary is trolling. (11+ / 0-)

      It was posted to mock and get a rise.   If you respond to it in earnest, you will waste your time.  

      What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

      by dkmich on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 02:59:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Having spent some time in comment (25+ / 0-)

      threads I now feel pretty safe in saying we have an "Obama Sux" contingent here that is not at all interested in anything but pointing our how much Obama Sux.  

      There is criticism based in reality, and there's fantasy criticism based in rumor, hearsay and weak punditry.  It's the latter who will likely break away and form a lefty Tea Party.  That's fine, they're a negligible minority and they don't have the power to trash the Democratic Party and create the chaos the Republicans are facing.  

      I don't think anyone supports everything Obama does - having never been President, however, I'm willing to do some research into possible reasons he's doing things I don't approve of.  I'm also, perhaps, old enough to know that there are no simple answers, politics is a slow and cumbersome process, and even John Boehner might have some point worth listening to.  (I'm not convinced, but willing to consider it.)

      I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

      by I love OCD on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 03:12:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have been part of the "Obama Sux" crowd (11+ / 0-)

        from time to time. But it is more "life sux and Obama can't fix it unfortunately" (for me anyway). It is very disheartening to see Americans imprisoned for drug crimes because of mandatory sentencing, but drug cartel money launderers are "too big to fail."

        Is that Obama's fault? A little bit.

        Has he done lots of things right? Probably.

        But when people get pissed off they look for someone to blame, and I think everyone can say that Obama has disappointed us. I'm sorry but his negotiating with Republicans is pretty hard to defend.

        I also think that unrealistic expectations that he would get rid of NCLB, get us single-payer, etc. don't help.

        Since when is the party that embraces all the top tenets of Satan allowed to call the God shots?--wyvern

        by voracious on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 04:09:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, not everything is Obama's fault, but he is not (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kurt

          a great or even good leader.  In fact, he doesn't lead at all.  

          I do give him credit for his mediation efforts but not for any results.  

          •  I'm going to disagree with this. I'm in the (9+ / 0-)

            crowd that is disappointed in the change we have gotten. But I think his leadership style was explained upfront: make me do it. When GLBT activists answered that call, he moved.

            I think he listened to our Occupy points too. But we need to double down on the activism in this area. I am not happy about that. I am of the opinion he should have come out of the gate fighting. But I think it's mistaken to say he doesn't lead. He inspired a lot of people to step up with his make me do it speech.

            Poverty = politics.

            by Renee on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 10:03:32 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I get your point, but I honestly think (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Renee, Onomastic, I love OCD, stormicats

              that Congress is a FAR greater obstacle to progress than Obama. What are your plans to change Congress? And why do so few people who want a more progressive government even contemplate something so obvious? Congressional obstruction is literally the elephant in the room. Get the house back, and you'll see the President move left. Guaranteed.

              •  I hear you and I'm concerned that this is going to (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                fou, kurt, sidnora

                sound too harsh. But he had decent amounts of backing in 08. Lots of us feel that was a squandered opportunity. Lots of us feel that it lead to the current congressional makeup.

                I think it is unfair to assume that few of us are contemplating the congressional party balance. We watched Rahm Immanuel DEMONIZE progressives before the midterms.

                Poverty = politics.

                by Renee on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 10:24:05 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Okay, I respect the fact that many feel (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Renee, Onomastic, JohnB47

                  disappointed. I get that. But the thing is, angsting in the rear view mirror won't change anything. The important thing is to create new opportunities. Move forward.

                  You can work with the President to move forward. You can apply pressure on him to move forward. I think the question should be what is the optimal mix of those strategies. The question about whether or not he squandered some opportunity, ... I'm sorry but I don't understand the point of that when the possibility for new opportunity exists.

                  •  I can't speak for anyone else. But for me it's not (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    fou, FogCityJohn, DeadHead, sidnora

                    that I'm disappointed. (I am disappointed, FWIW.) It's that I have a disquieting suspicion that I'm just jumping through hoops. When I say what I said above, it was to convey to you that I don't trust that if we elect a more progressive congress the change I seek will occur. That doesn't mean I won't push for a more progressive congress anyway. But I don't think "Oh all we have to do is get a more progressive congress!" because I saw what happened with one version of a more progressive congress.

                    I mean, there are ALWAYS possibilities. But some of them aren't very likely, you know?

                    Poverty = politics.

                    by Renee on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 10:43:02 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Hmmm, interesting. (4+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Renee, DeadHead, Onomastic, pamelabrown
                      When I say what I said above, it was to convey to you that I don't trust that if we elect a more progressive congress the change I seek will occur.
                      I don't think any change would occur right away, but I also don't think we would have gotten HRC or DADT repeal, for example, with the current Congress. So I think it's safe to say that we've already gotten a better outcome from a marginally more progressive Congress.

                      I think that an evolution to a Congress that many hear would recognize as progressive would take a while. I also think that no matter how fruitless things seem in the short term, we have to keep plugging away. There's no choice really.

                      •  I agree that real change takes awhile. (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        DeadHead, congenitalefty, fou, sidnora

                        And as I said, I'm still working.

                        But I don't believe the change I want will happen without a real movement by working class people to reclaim our power in the system. And I think an important component of that is voicing my dissenting opinions.

                        Poverty = politics.

                        by Renee on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 11:06:49 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You are absolutely right. (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          stormicats, fou

                          Union organizers faced death and brutality first time out.  Do we have the courage to fight that hard?  It's going to be a vicious battle, beyond being fired for organizing.  

                          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                          by I love OCD on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 09:14:03 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                •  He had wuss support in his first 2 (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  stormicats

                  years.  Gitmo?  Dems helped keep that open.  Equal pay?  Ditto.  Healthcare reform?  Not enough votes for any bill with a strong PO.  the bills were there, not the votes.  

                  Most of what people claim to be angry about never happened.  I'll bet 10 people here know the details of the NDAA he's still blamed for.  Maybe 40 or 50 know that Medicare is stronger, more patient centered, more solvent.  Disrespect for Progressives?  If you lie about his policies and ignore political realities how much respect do you deserve?   Even Rand Paul admitted the President has the right and obligation to use the military for protection inside the country.  Limited to extraordinary situations, exactly as laid out by Holder.  

                  Here's the problem.  Fox News "reports on" Obama exactly the same way some progressives report on Obama which makes me wonder what the agenda really is.  

                  I'm not disappointed.  I look into background, I notice the Republicans are losing their time-tested propaganda memes, I see them out of the shadows, and much of the country aware of their real platform.  It's a first in my lifetime and I credit Obama's "weak" leadership.  It's not about the bully pulpit it's about cornering them and forcing them to fight in the public eye for tax cuts for the rich, entitlement cuts for the poor, small government for the rich, intrusive big government for women, POC, immigrants, the elderly, those who lost everything in the Bush Crash.  That's sophisticated politics in action, and anyone who's read his books or his speeches knows that this is part one of his agenda:  kill the lies, teach people that government can be well-run, effective and efficient in meeting the needs of the people.  

                  How that gets ignored tells me we're small picture people easily led into side issues that aren't really issues.  

                  OBL was on the evil kill list, not Betty White.  He told us exactly what he planned for AQ, right from the start.  If he's spying on citizens it's probably not you and me, it's probably the folks on SPLCs hate groups list, people who forfeited their rights, IMO, as soon as they decided some people don't have the right to live in safety and freedom.

                  Has any diarist who claimed Iraq was forever ever apologized for being wrong?  Has any diary claiming Obama is going to kill off SS offered one instance where he did one thing that hurt the safety net?  Has any diary about drones offered an alternative solution for dealing with terrorism on AQs level?  Has anyone admitted that we were terrorized by 9/11 because we thought terrorism only happened elsewhere?  Have you read about what we did to empower AQ and the Taliban in the 80s?  Do we just say "Ooops, my bad" and walk away from a clusterfuck we created?  I hope not.  I hope we aren't that crass.

                  I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                  by I love OCD on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 09:11:23 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Hi. You have a lot of intensity in this comment. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    I love OCD

                    I mean, we all feel passionate about politics or we wouldn't be here.

                    I agree that President Obama's leadership style has drawn out some of his opponents into the light of day. I respect him very much.

                    And I also feel that he has made some choices that were not consistent with what he said on the trail. I see it as my responsibility to talk about that. Sometimes that gets characterized as whining or whatever, and that is not something i can control even though I don't think that is what I'm doing.

                    Poverty = politics.

                    by Renee on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 11:51:37 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I agree with you, some of what (0+ / 0-)

                      he said turned out to be not possible once in office, or even maybe not really the best idea.  Campaigning and governing seem to be radically different animals.

                      I have NO problem with criticisms, I have a few of my own, but what happens here is way beyond criticism.  And right now I have about zero tolerance for it, I'm getting nervous about a replay of the 2010 clusterfuck.  We already have our work cut out for us in 2014, Democrats are not really great at turning out for midterms.  It doesn't take much of a drop in those turnout numbers to give the Republicans another wave election, just when we should be able to make some big changes in Tea Party controlled states.

                      Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory isn't all that funny when half the country is being jacked over by nutcase governors and legislators.

                      I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                      by I love OCD on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 02:56:36 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I know. It's a scary situation. Scary and sad. (0+ / 0-)

                        I'm working on the theory that if I learn how to talk to people who disagree with me in a gentle way that allows them to feel heard then there might be agreement. I think we need more agreement.

                        When I yell at people or accuse them of wrecking our chances, I'm usually just really worried inside. But I don't think people can tell that and they get defensive.

                        It's hard. But I'm getting better at it. A few times I have found common ground with pretty serious wingnuts. Even if they just think of one progressive as a real person instead of a sinner going to hell, or whatever it is they demonize us as… It gives me hope.

                        Poverty = politics.

                        by Renee on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 03:14:00 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I'm cranky about DK because I have (0+ / 0-)

                          better luck talking to wingnuts than to True Progressives.  Really truly.  That, right now, pisses me off beyond anything.  I agree that a gentler tone and presentation of facts is the best approach to changing minds.  IRL it works.  On this site?  Facts interfere with the narrative and are greeted with derision.

                          I usually avoid the diaries I know will piss me off, sometimes I find them by accident.  Lately it's half the wreck list.  Most of the Kossaks I respect and love have left for saner sites.  I may be joining them soon.  

                          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                          by I love OCD on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 06:55:11 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I hear you. It seems to me that the two Kos (0+ / 0-)

                            factions are just screaming at each other. Nobody is going to listen in that sort of scenario.

                            Poverty = politics.

                            by Renee on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 09:54:31 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Trust me, my comment history will (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Renee

                            tell you how often I've tried a factual non-threatening approach, because we need unity.  It's pretty discouraging to be ridiculed and vilified under those circumstances.  It's the Internet, it doesn't wound me or break my heart, it does make me wonder if there's a future for Democrats with us following the Republicans off the purity cliff.  

                            Maybe both parties have too much baggage and a reboot is required.  Who knows?

                            I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                            by I love OCD on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 04:54:39 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

          •  do you have a window in your room? (0+ / 0-)

            Possibly not. The President has led a majority or Americans to the polls twice to be elected 'leader' of the nation. So, perhaps had you a window in your room you might have noticed the remarkable war he and the progressives here and dems from around the country waged against the monied interests and entrenched power protecting media aka Karl Rove, from taking over our government completely.
            Now the jest of the diary was; there are things we can do besides bemoan every personal setback and aid the oligarchy taking over the nation by blaming the President for co-operating, reaching out, finding common ground and looking like the adult in the room. So, goodservice, what is your alternative? If it is to elect better democrats and get better representation, the shrill attacks coming from this site and directed at the President or his administration, do 'us' no good. There are plenty issues to champion. I take issue with those who don't believe or understand that the President is doing an incredible job, against congressional roadblocks, hurdles and an un-appreciative, ill informed electorate. The reason the GOP cleans our clock with less actual support for their ideas is that they stick together, and as long as they do, we have to. But,as this diary and many reactions show, we have trouble in that regard.

        •  Also, I don't think he sux as a person, a family (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          3goldens, allenjo, ichibon, kurt, voracious

          man, I think he has a great personality and sense of humor.

          Leadership qualities are very lacking.  If he ever fought for something, I think we'd all be more united.  

        •  I don't know that Obama has disappointed me (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          OleHippieChick, Onomastic, JohnB47

          But CONGRESS sure as hell has.

        •  I hold Obama accountable for his screw ups (0+ / 0-)

          And own goals against the party.  It isn't that life sux and Oabama is the fall guy, it is that he has on numerous occasions worked to make things work or soft peddled actual proposed solutions.  

          I will say it again, where a politician does crappy things, I am going to point out he has done crappy things.  I see no reason to support crappy policy just because you like the guy.

          It is all about the policies

          Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

          by Mindful Nature on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 01:02:35 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  So does the GOP (0+ / 0-)

            Except they've created a cottage industry of propaganda to sabotage every position and pathway proposed by POTUS for the purpose of clearing the field for their wealthy patrons.
            The diary asks; what is your alternative? Mitt Romney, Rand Paul? We went through these pie fights before 2010 and it cost us in the redistricting and gerrymandering that followed our imbecilic infighting. Let's not do that again.
            Go ahead and point out the 'crappy things' the President does, but don't forget to try to understand the things he's reacting to and appreciate what he's doing to try to keep the R's from taking what they want. Our arguing among ourselves is a winning strategy; for our enemies.

            •  Straw men (0+ / 0-)

              Like these only help the GOP.  The alternative of course is to prepare the ground to elect progressive politicians by winning the debate.  Providing cover for conservative policies doesn't accomplish that.  

              As for specifics, they've been pointed out as nauseum.  OZone, powder river, drones, "all of the above". Executive secrecy, whistleblower prosecutions, banksters prosecutions, drone strikes, worker salary freezes, you name it.  NONE of these involve congressional action, so that lame excuse doesn't apply, and in every case Obama has chosen the conservative path

              The real division we see here is that liberals don't like conservative policies, while centrists don't mind them.  We have comments here sayin that geothenr and Holder are great guys.  That tells me that the issue is that we have a split between centrists and leftists.  What gets tirese is the arrogant posturing of centrists as if they're the only ones who know anything while espousing naive political positions or throwing up stupid straw men, as you do here

              Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

              by Mindful Nature on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 10:37:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  and to add (0+ / 0-)
              Except they've created a cottage industry of propaganda to sabotage every position and pathway proposed by POTUS for the purpose of clearing the field for their wealthy patrons.
              And a major issue is that the President buys into and amplifies that propaganda.  In many instances, he seems to be rather in agreement with it (for example, the possibility of "energy independence" by more drilling or the notion that Social Security faces an emergency, or that we need austerity style deficit reduction as a top priority)

              Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

              by Mindful Nature on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 10:52:36 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  There seems to be little recollection that the (9+ / 0-)

        Executive is only one branch of government.

        With the other two branches driving in reverse, it has been an Augean labor to accomplish anything positive for a nation poised on the edge of a fiscal and moral abyss. Our heros, and I include Obama among their tarnished and battered number, have only us to prod them to action.

        The economic climate is balmy for the haves, and laden with storm clouds for the rest. As elections are heavily influenced by the wealth of the haves, their influence on government is very powerful. We can't purchase our way to power, and moral suasion has its limits.

        However, we do have the numbers. So if we want the government to make changes, we can't simply depend upon the limited powers of the presidency to accomplish them. The internecine bickering doesn't accomplish anything. But some actions might. Collectively interacting with members of congress who will listen has possibilities, as does organizing a writing campaign for local media on issues.

        Some of us are willing to take positive actions like these. Those who won't make such efforts really have no place complaining about the presently malfunctioning government.

        We and our fellow Americans voted them into office.

        You can't go back and rewrite your past, but you can use your past to create your future. ~ Ray Lewis

        by 4Freedom on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 04:27:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I Think You're Mostly Awesome HB3, but... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ichibon
      You miss the point that the left has never walked in lockstep like the Republicans because factionalism is intensified then.
      The Left is traditionally the most factionalized party ever.

      In fact that is the only remaining distinction, IMO between the parties; if I may stereotype:

      The Right follow party rhetoric lockstep.
      The Left foster a number of zealous causes, independent of the party interest.

      I guess you are just putting a positive spin on an otherwise regrettable trait.

    •  Really? (0+ / 0-)
      You miss the point that the left has never walked in lockstep like the Republicans because factionalism is intensified then. Look at the Republican/Libertarian/Teabagger mess for example. Their adherence to rigid ideology created that monster of divisiveness.
      I though Obama was a naive suck up, and that the Tea Party rigidity was a model of strength and chutzpah that Obama should emulate. Mind you, I'm not attributing that sentiment to you. It's just something that I hear a lot of his critics say.
      •  As I mentioned waaay downthread (0+ / 0-)

        a little bit of ideological pressure wouldn't be a bad thing. It sure makes Republican moderates respect (fear) their more conservative fellows.

        "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

        by sidnora on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 06:23:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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