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  •  heh (9+ / 0-)

    montana is beautiful. as is the pacific northwest. not too close to the water...

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Tue Mar 12, 2013 at 09:57:05 AM PDT

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    •  Yes (12+ / 0-)

      I'm from Oregon.

      Portland is now expensive, like San Francisco, except without the jobs. I would not be able to permanently go back.

      Oregon actually has some great high country in the interior and the eastern part of the state. But it's dry. Really dry. The lack of water and infrastructure -- it's a long way from anywhere -- I guess have been a deterrent to development.

      I like Missoula. There's a university there. It's green. And the elevation is 3,209 ft.

      "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one."

      by bink on Tue Mar 12, 2013 at 10:00:21 AM PDT

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      •  oregon's economy (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cliss, maryabein, greenearth

        is starting to turn around, depending on your field. but missoula is, indeed, beautiful, and a short hop to several national parks...

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Tue Mar 12, 2013 at 10:01:57 AM PDT

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      •  I was surprised by how dry Oregon was on a (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Torta, Cliss

        recent trip.

        Missoula is pretty nice.

        Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

        by k9disc on Tue Mar 12, 2013 at 10:28:51 AM PDT

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      •  It blew my mind when I discovered (back in the (6+ / 0-)

        70's) that there is actual desert in eastern Oregon. I'd always assumed (naively as is usual for me) that deserts in the US were confined entirely to Southern CA, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico.

        •  The Badlands of SD (10+ / 0-)

          and the Sand Hills portion of northern Nebraska are essentially deserts as well.  I grew up just a few miles north of the "badland wall" and we didn't get much more than 16 inches of rain a year, which is sermi-desert territory, though "them's fightin' words" out there if you open your mouth about it.  So, no, deserts are not confined to the west and southwest.  

          -7.13 / -6.97 "The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -- Edmund Burke

          by GulfExpat on Tue Mar 12, 2013 at 11:40:41 AM PDT

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          •  Those dry areas east of the Rocky (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cliss

            Mountains would be good places to put solar thermal generators which would help balance the lack of photovoltaic power at night and which is despatchable to cover windless times.  

            Renewable energy brings national global security.     

            by Calamity Jean on Tue Mar 12, 2013 at 02:36:38 PM PDT

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            •  Western SD is almost never (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Calamity Jean, JeffW

              windless...  It's not like being on top of Mt. Washington, but there's almost always a good breeze blowing.  When I was little before the REA (Rural Electrification Agency) appeared on the scene with power from Oahe Reservoir on the Missouri, we had a 32 volt wind charger, which powered the house.  Didn't have much more than lights, a water pump for the cistern, and a radio on it, but that was fine.  We had propane powered fridge, cook stove, and furnace, so no juice was necessary for those.  With the wet cell batteries in the basement, I can't remember of being out of power once.  But the power did fail periodically once we were connected to the 110v supply from the REA.

              -7.13 / -6.97 "The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -- Edmund Burke

              by GulfExpat on Thu Mar 14, 2013 at 03:53:39 AM PDT

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              •  I was thinking of putting the power on a (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JeffW

                high voltage (high efficiency) DC line and shipping it east to Chicago and beyond.  Except for Texas, the old Confederate states are in a serious "wind desert".  They have plenty of sun but need some help overnight.  

                Renewable energy brings national global security.     

                by Calamity Jean on Thu Mar 14, 2013 at 03:00:20 PM PDT

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        •  The High Plains east of the Rockies used to (0+ / 0-)

          be called the Great American Desert, because it was treeless and very close to waterless. The only reason it became part of the Breadbasket was because of human intervention (irrigation, etc.).

          The last time the Republicans were this radical, they were working to elect former slaves to Congress. What a difference a century and a half makes!

          by jayjaybear on Tue Mar 12, 2013 at 04:48:29 PM PDT

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    •  But you can get closer to shore than on east coast (0+ / 0-)

      The west coast has a much steeper gradient of seabed to dry land. Even when the oceans and Puget Sound rise 21 feet, very little of the area bordering the Sound will disappear. Plus being a sound  and not open ocean the effects of waves and big wind-driven breakers are much diminished.
      As for water -- except for this narrow stretch of PacNW coast in Oregon and Washington in front of the coastal ranges, the entire rest of the US west of the Mississippi historically receives less than 20 inches of rain annually -- much of the land a lot less than  that. And that was BEFORE the long-term drought started. As someone said, without irrigation the Central Plains would still be dry, treeless expanses of prairie grass.
      Oh, and Montana is one of the 10 poorest states in the US, ranking down there with Mississippi and Arkansas. Bring LOTS of money if you want to re-locate there.

      Ash-sha'b yurid isqat an-nizzam!

      by fourthcornerman on Tue Mar 12, 2013 at 05:57:29 PM PDT

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