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View Diary: The New Pope (201 comments)

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  •  You have to be told? Seriously? n/t (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lost and Found, emelyn, TFinSF

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Thu Mar 14, 2013 at 07:46:49 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, I do. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gc10, Timaeus, alain2112

      I feel that calling someone for pissing all over a hopeful diary by Timaeus was wholly proper.   It's not an ad hom to call someone on dickishness for entering what amounts to someone's living room and spraying a shit mist on the host and his diary.  

      Timaeus, like me, is hopeful that the new Pope will make some strides toward reforming the Church, and the fact that the new Pope is less progressive on birth control and gay marriage than kossacks should come as no surprise to anyone who knows how the Curia and the College of Cardinals makes it very hard to elect a full on "reform" Pope.  The fact that a South American Franciscan was elected is a very positive sign, and I found it sad that the commenter had to piss all over the diary, just because the Pope is supportive of mainstream Catholic doctrine.   Those things don't change over night.   Give the guy a chance.  

      Many hands make light work, but light hearts make heavy work the lightest of all.

      by SpamNunn on Thu Mar 14, 2013 at 08:05:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We'll have to agree to disagree on, (0+ / 0-)

        well, every last word you wrote.

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Thu Mar 14, 2013 at 08:10:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Was it because I said he had been a dick? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Timaeus, alain2112

          Or is it because Catholics are "free fire" targets these days and we should just keep our mouths shut and take it, if we know what's good for us?

          Like I said, it's good form to explain an HR.  The reason was not readily apparent to me.  

          Many hands make light work, but light hearts make heavy work the lightest of all.

          by SpamNunn on Thu Mar 14, 2013 at 08:39:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The new Pope's public record of (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            vacantlook

            homophobic bigotry appears to have escaped you as well.  

            •  Yes, it has. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Timaeus
              Bergoglio is seen an unwaveringly orthodox on matters of sexual morality, staunchly opposing abortion, same-sex marriage, and contraception. In 2010 he asserted that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children, earning a public rebuke from Argentina's President, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner.

              Nevertheless, he has shown deep compassion for the victims of HIV-AIDS; in 2001, he visited a hospice to kiss and wash the feet of 12 AIDS patients.

              Many hands make light work, but light hearts make heavy work the lightest of all.

              by SpamNunn on Thu Mar 14, 2013 at 07:42:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your 'yes it has' is a (0+ / 0-)

                very significant 'yes it has.'

                Again, not all who suffer from HIV / AIDS are homosexuals.  The disease doesn't ask into labels, it just strikes.

                The subject was homophobic bigotry and specific words of Bergoglio.  

            •  You know, you're actually not telling the (0+ / 0-)

              truth.

              He is not more guilty of dreaded "homophobic bigotry" than any Catholic priest.

              Do you know that he is famous for his truly compassionate ministry to AIDS sufferers in Argentina?

              You probably do know that, and don't care, in your insistence on hating all Catholics all the time.  

              Even on Daily Kos, that kind of bigotry is not supported by the majority of members.

              •  Not anti-Catholic at all. But very anti- (0+ / 0-)

                Vatican.  

                Generally speaking I don't like rule-givers.  Especially rule-givers who say one thing and then do another.  

                A close read of the New Testament would suggest that exclusional and discriminatory social positions run contrary to the spirit of What's-His-Name's ministry.  

                Your new guy's on record as being both exclusional and discriminatory.  

                You keep equating homosexuals with AIDS victims, Timaeus.  Those are separate topics.  

                Bergoglio's comments on homosexuals were homophobic and bigoted.  You presented him as a sort of wonderful Santa Claus in your diary and you got called on it.  

                He's no Santa Claus.

      •  Small Correction (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus

        The fact that a South American Franciscan  [Jesuit] was elected is a very positive sign.

        Jesuits take a vow to not promote themselves, we'll see how that plays out in time.

        "We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other." ~ RFK

        by paz3 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 at 09:12:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I concur.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus

        BTW he is a Jesuit not a Franciscan.  And an interesting thing about the Jesuits is that they have never been known to "cow-tow" to the Curia.  Over the centuries they have often been in trouble with the Vatican.

        The politics of the church are no less delicate than in any nation state.   No one could have ever predicted that the staunch anti-communist Nixon would have been the one to open the door to China.  Yes, now, historians think that only he could have because he was so anticommunist!

         We shall see how this all plays out.

        Anyone who isn't confused doesn't really understand the situation. - Edward R Murrow

        by gc10 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 at 10:04:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You meant, of course, South American (0+ / 0-)

        Jesuit.

        There are about 1.3 billion Catholics in the world, by far the largest single religion.  But there are only 19,000 Jesuits, spread out over 150+ countries.

        They have a hugely disproportionate influence because they are tremendously passionate and intelligent people.  (Disclosure:  I always felt called to be a Jesuit, seriously, but got married instead. I admire them very much.  I don't think I've ever heard of a Jesuit getting involved in sex abuse.)

        Pope Francis was the only Jesuit among all 115 cardinals.  It's very rare for a Jesuit to be in the Curia.

        It's a very amazing, and inspiring, and hopeful, outcome.

        •  If you've never heard of a Jesuit involved in (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Remediator

          sex abuse, this demonstrates your willful blindness or, as we were taught, culpable ignorance. I agree with all the good things you've said about Jesuits, but they are certainly represented among the accused and convicted. The database is public. You can choose to ignore it, but that is a see-no-evil choice.

          Of course there are fewer Jesuits than diocesans in that net -- probably for a number of reasons relating to selection and education and the fact that the positions they tend to hold are less target-rich environments than parishes, but primarily because there are fewer Jesuits. Many of them are brilliant, holy men, but they are not all saints and a non-trivial number have been quite the opposite.

          •  I don't think so. Prove it. (0+ / 0-)
            •  You don't think what? Prove what? (0+ / 0-)

              Are you seriously suggesting no Jesuit has been implicated in a sex abuse scandal? I have personal knowledge of several (not as a victim or lawyer, thankfully). Do you know nothing of the problems just in the Diocese of Spokane?

              The link to the search page of the database is below. Pick a diocese or state and search for "Jesuit." You can read whether the accusation was found credible (stated differently in different regions), resulted in arrest, conviction, payout, removal from ministry, etc.

              I found 18 in Washington state alone. Five in Maryland. More than 15 in California. See for yourself. Whatever you think of the sponsor of the database, it is quite well sourced.

              Database

            •  Inside about 15 seconds, you could (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Villanova Rhodes

              make a real long list of Jesuits involved in abuse cases.

              Here's a sampling:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/...

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