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  •  may-issue laws only examine why (0+ / 0-)

    a given person is asking for a carry permit, and also, who they are (in New York, good luck getting a carry permit if you're not connected or a celebrity).

    A may-issue permit hold can still suffer from poor gun choice, lack of understanding of carry rules and justifiable use of deadly force, and poor trigger discipline *cough* Sen Feinstein *cough*.

    •  I agree that New York's law is extremely (0+ / 0-)

      restrictive.

      I would argue if surrounding states from which guns are trafficked into New York were MORE restrictive, then New York could consider loosening the requirements.

      Have you ever looked at gun crime over time?  That big hump in the mid 90's was largely due to gun crime in New York.

      IOW a federal carry law that was LESS restrictive than New York, was limited to the specific type of gun and model, and  required training/proficiency in firearm safety, accurate moving target selection, and federal/regional/state firearm law then we could start to talk about reciprocity with states that had similar competency tests.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Fri Mar 22, 2013 at 02:49:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the problem with stipulating what model of gun (0+ / 0-)

        you can carry is that as humans, we have different sized hands, and different tolerances for recoil.

        A 1911 is my choice for warm weather carry.  When it's colder I go for a Glock.  Some need an even smaller grip for their smaller hands.

        I shot 45ACP very well, some people can't tolerate the recoil.  For others the 9mm recoil is too sharp and they prefer the slightly bigger ( but slower) recoil of the 45ACP.  Some people can't even handle that and need to go lower, to .380

        What works well for me can be totally unsafe for you.  Using a gun whos grip is awkward or recoil you can't handle can do two things:

        -Mess up your accuracy, making you unsafe.
        -Mess up your handling, making you unsafe.

        It's good in theory but problematic in terms of practicality.  

        •  Right, but then your permit would be (0+ / 0-)

          to carry either/or, after you proved competency with both.

          A 1911 is my choice for warm weather carry.  When it's colder I go for a Glock.  Some need an even smaller grip for their smaller hands.
          Someone else would only be approved to carry a rifle that they have proven competent to use for hunting.

          A competent hunter is not necessarily going to be able to use a hand gun effectively* for self defense.

          A petite woman competent with a pistol is not necessarily going to be able to effectively* use a rifle for any purpose.

          *effectively = use without creating a menace to themselves or others.

          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

          by LilithGardener on Fri Mar 22, 2013 at 03:40:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  some states have this now. (0+ / 0-)

            Iirc, in texas, if you take your carry qualification with a revolver, you're only allowed to carry a revolver, logic being the additional controls on an a semi-auto

            other states have separate licenses for firearms and for carry (massachusetts, for example).  Illinois will be close behind in June, assuming that the legislature doesn't run out the clock (and then we get constitutional carry).

            Typically a state carry permit requires you to pass a firearm handling and accuracy test on a range (handle safely, present form holster, render safe, engage the target x number of times needing a y hit percentage).  The instructor can fail you for unsafe handling, missing too much, etc.

            They don't necessarily quiz you on your firearm per se, but they will fail you for obvious safety issues like not knowing where the safety is, how to engage disengage it, how to drop the magazine, etc.

            And theres the myriad of clones of certain pistol types, say I'm qualified for a Beretta M9 (not ironically a pistol I quallified with in the Army).  A M9 is a beretta 92F(S).  theres also a closely related 92A1, and a 92SB.  Then there's the Taurus PR92/99/100/101 series, nearly identical since it's a licensed copy.  But legally a different pistol.  One permit to rule them all?  Or one certification for each?

            •  I'm sure that it's not the same but I have in (0+ / 0-)

              mind something like the difference between a driver's license, a motorcycle license, a limosine license, a minibus license, etc.

              With firearms, there could be groups that are covered under a single license, but they would have to function and be cleared in the same manner, IMO.

              IOW, extending a license to cover a different firearm might be a simple as sending in proof to the licensing body of lawful purchase and prior certification in that class.

              I'm way out of my depth re what would be practical divisions.

              BTW, is there a convenient source where carry permit laws are organized by state?

              "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

              by LilithGardener on Fri Mar 22, 2013 at 04:26:31 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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