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View Diary: Cops arrest, rough up, hold for 12hrs and charge woman with obstruction/resisting for jaywalking(!) (90 comments)

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  •  Yes, but when you don't obstruct traffic, (5+ / 0-)

    or interfere with its flow, then you should be able to cross where you can safely cross.  There's a big difference between jaywalking and obstructing traffic.  That said, if this is true, the cops should be fired and sent to school crossing-guard duty.

    •  Jaywalking is dangerous, and in many cities (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bleeding blue, dfe, mkoz, irishwitch, Stwriley

      illegal. So is crossing where there is no crosswalk. Like I said upthread, what happened to this lady is totally abhorrent. I would NOT be upset, however, if she'd gotten a ticket.

      One of the things that keeps our small city traffic tidy and courteous in an almost Canadian way (I don't think I've ever seen a jaywalker in a Canadian city) is a great deal of respect for "don't walk" signs, and the threat of a ticket.

      What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

      by commonmass on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 10:16:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  sorry, can't agree (4+ / 0-)

        I know it's anathema to the majority assumption that automobiles trump everything else, but there's something downright authoritarian about ticketing people for walking. Call me a utopian anarchist, but I don't like it.

        •  I see where you're coming from, but imagine (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Swill to Power, Stwriley

          the chaos and danger if everyone simply crosses the street whenever and wherever they want to in a city? No matter how careful and obedient of traffic rules a motorist may be--including stopping for those pedestrians WHEN they can be seen--the number of fatalities and injuries would far outweigh the utopian anarchism.

          Just because we have traffic and pedestrian laws does not necessarily make us authoritarians. Now, what those cops did to the woman who is the subject of this diary, THAT was authoritarianism run amok.

          What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

          by commonmass on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 12:17:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I guess I object to a series of assumptions (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            commonmass

            "What if everybody just ran out into the street in front of traffic?" Well, note that everybody doesn't run wildly into traffic; nor does the fact that everybody doesn't run out into traffic rely upon financial sanctions, a pervasive police presence, or deep respect for the sacred rule of law.

            On the other hand, twist your "what if" scenario slightly: what if cities were designed for the comfort and convenience of people rather than for the (seemingly) inefficient comfort of the private automobile? Now, I understand that most American cities are not designed this way (they used to be more so, but that's another story). But the first step to dislodging habitual thinking is to entertain the seemingly unrealistic in its pragmatic implications; my argument is that we're so accustomed to being herded, thwarted, sanctioned, intimidated, and ruled that we've lost sight of some things that used to be pretty common sense.

            Incidentally, I don't really believe in national characteristics, but I do believe in observing norms. If you want a glimpse into how little Americans actually value individual conscience, freedom of decision, etc., remain seated during the national anthem at a ball game sometime and listen to what people say. If you want a glimpse into what many people would view as a long-standing quality of Germans, cross a totally empty street against the "Don't Walk" signal.

            So yeah, I kind of went Godwin with the last line, but it's also true.  

            •  I tend to agree with you, on the other hand, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Swill to Power, Cvstos

              I guess I just don't feel oppressed by common-sense rules for navigating congested streets down which potential death-machines in the form of cars, busses and streetcars travel. Or maybe I lived in Austria for too long. ;)

              As far as the National Anthem is concerned, I used to be a shcoolteacher in public school and I neither recited nor compelled my students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance on the grounds that I find loyalty oaths to be abhorrent AND many in the class were not citizens. This was in Texas. I am very well aware of the herd mentality. It's just that I think when it comes to city streets, if there were ever a place for herding (or at least obeying walk/don't walk lights), city streets is it.

              What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

              by commonmass on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 02:27:21 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Many streets have no crosswalk (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        commonmass, Sam Berdoux, a2nite

        It is usually legal to cross at a corner. There are neighborhoods where there are no sidewalks, yet people must cross the street. Commonsense should rule.

      •  Those laws are also pretty universally not (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marvinborg, doinaheckuvanutjob

        enforced, and the woman was not charged with jaywalking.

        Whatever this woman was arrested for, it was not jaywalking.  Either the cop was having a bad day, or was low on quota.  If this was in part of the 0.001% of the US where jaywalking laws are actually enforced, it may have been because a cop with a severe anger management problem viewed not having an ID as giving him lip, and he has learned over the years that he can get away with being an abusive thug when he feels like it.

        Regardless of how you look at it, there's no way any of this makes sense.  There's no law requiring people carry ID.  IMHO resistance and obstruction charges should not exist when there are no other charges, or all other charges are dropped.

      •  I understand and agree with you, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PennsylvaniaProgressive

        but one other example that happens all the time.  You find a parking space in the middle of the block, and your destination is across the street.  If there is no traffic, you should be able to cross where without fear of a ticket.  I don't need government to hold my hand to cross the street.  If I interfere with traffic however, then I deserve the ticket.  

        Either way, I won't receive a ticket in my college town because that doesn't seem to attract the attention of our local police.  The natural outgrowth is the students never follow that law.  When passing the college, students cross against the light and REALLY interfere wiith traffic.  This gives me confidence I won't be ticketed.  

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