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View Diary: Bank Run in Cyprus, Will it Spread to Southern Europe? (322 comments)

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  •  Chain of responsibility (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shrike, dfe

    Having now read the diaries, I'm puzzled. Iran violates a UN embargo (here called "America's War on Iran" because, I suppose, it's only in America's interest that Iran might be prevented from either nuclear weapons development or arming other conflicts), gets caught, and Cyprus agrees to store the contraband. Foolishly, they store it out in the open where a brush fire causes the ordnance to explode. And this is the fault of the U.S., as opposed to either Iran, for violating UN sanctions, the UN, for imposing sanctions, or Cyprus for incompetent care of dangerous materials?

    •  Misrepresentation (16+ / 0-)
       it's only in America's interest that Iran might be prevented from either nuclear weapons development or arming other conflicts
       1) The weapons in question had nothing to do with nuclear weapons, and 2) since when do having any weapons at all immediately mean "arming other conflicts", and 3) that's pretty bold coming from a country that is the biggest supplier of weapons in the word, not to mention a country that is bombing multiple nations its not at war with right now.
      Cyprus agrees to store the contraband
      After we pressured them to. Why didn't we store the weapons on one of our hundreds of military bases? After all, we were the ones enforcing the weapons ban.

       Yes, they were incompetent in their storage of the weapons. No doubt about it. Thus, their government bears some responsibility.
         But they weren't the ones who brought the weapons there. We did. Thus we must bear some responsibility too.
         The only people who bear NO responsibility is Iran, who didn't want the weapons there in the first place.

      ¡Cállate o despertarás la izquierda! - protest sign in Spain

      by gjohnsit on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 09:00:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Still unpersuaded (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dfe

        1) Was Iran violating a UN embargo? Apparently so. You might not like the embargo, but running it would still appear to be a violation of a clear, internationally enacted rule. At a bare minimum, the Iranians had to fully understand that they were performing an action that put their cargo at risk.

        2) Short of being threatened with war by either the U.S. or the U.N, Cyprus's government could have refused the weapons. For whatever reason the Cypriotes found persuasive, they didn't. Having agreed to accept the weapons, it became entirely their sovereign responsibility to store them safely. They failed to do that, and (almost literally) shot themselves in the foot. That's unfortunate, but blame there belongs entirely to the Cypriotes.

        •  Re: (4+ / 0-)

          So if you convince your friend to go to a dangerous neighborhood, and he does something stupid and gets himself killed, do you not take any responsibility? Just blame it all on him?

            That's pretty much the same situation (morally) you are describing.

          ¡Cállate o despertarás la izquierda! - protest sign in Spain

          by gjohnsit on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 11:58:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Analogies (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dfe

            Cyprus is a nation, not a person, an ally, not a friend.  Allies are people who act together out of self-interest, not out of altruistic friendship. If Cyprus had done its job of storage properly, there would have been no explosion. So yeah, no one beside the Cypriotes bears any moral responsibility for that event and its consequences.

          •  Actually, it would be more like (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            hmi

            You ask your friend to keep your guns and ammo for you, and he puts the ammo in the basement, right on top of the hot water heater.

            Is it your fault when his house gets shot full of holes and then burns down?

        •  Re: +2 (0+ / 0-)

          As for Iran somehow being responsible, I have two problems with that:
          1) Claiming that they are responsible when the cargo they paid for was stolen from them, is like claiming a hit-and-run is the responsibility of the guy who owns the car after it was stolen.
          2) Even if you ignore my first point, you would still have to place equal blame on the party that sold the weapons to Iran.

          ¡Cállate o despertarás la izquierda! - protest sign in Spain

          by gjohnsit on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 05:58:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  "The Cypriot government had declined offers... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        northsylvania, dfe, gjohnsit

        from Germany, the United Kingdom and the United States to remove or dispose of the material

        ...having feared an adverse reaction from Syria.[5] The government had instead requested that the UN effect the removal, but claimed that its request had been rejected..."[10]
        ...According to the above link to the Wikipedia article in your diary.

        It was a terrible event for the people of Cyprus, and has had awful repercussions on their economy.  

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