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View Diary: Rape: Anonymous but Silenced No More (142 comments)

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  •  Remember the old line about walking in someone (9+ / 0-)

    else's shoes? I'm going to assume that you haven't been raped. That puts a GULF of distance between you and understanding the nature of rape and the ways our culture makes rape possible. Until you find a way to bridge that gap, you will not understand how damaging and wrong headed your attempts here really are. Go ask your female friends and family about their experiences w rapists. You will be surprised to find lots of stories. Ask them how many "stupid mistakes" they made during the attack. Trust me, most of us women assume the guy is going to stop. We put ourselves in some deeply dangerous situations based on our mistaken belief that we must be imagining the aggression. And way more than half the time it's some guy who is trusted in the community.

    I don't care if this turns out to be someone who is lying about this. You are causing emotional suffering with your line of questioning. And this is an area where you need to gain some additional knowledge. Please do us all a favor and find some teachers.

    Poverty = politics.

    by Renee on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 09:00:06 PM PDT

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    •  You are right, i have not been raped... (0+ / 0-)

      but I also have not gone over the line and feel guilty about it either.  And I do have very close freinds who have been raped and I continue to be their friend so pehaps I do have some ability to relate.  So there's that.
      I also get that questioning the diarist was proably wrong in that it did cause others harm, that I can see now--hours after I made the statements.  So thanks for pointing that out.
      But, as far as culture being to blame here--if we were talking about an underage girl or a mentally handicapped person, I would agree, but we are talking about a grown law student.  Given what was told here, known murderer and all, should society expect the female to make any preventive choices at all, before "no" needs to be said?  I agree absolutly that once "no" is said all blame rests with the attacker.

      The more you learn the less you know.

      by quiet in NC on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 09:18:51 PM PDT

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      •  You are defending an abhorrent position. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener

        You don't understand why. It's ok, none of us have to understand everything. Just figure it out and get on the right side of the discussion.

        Poverty = politics.

        by Renee on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 09:41:21 PM PDT

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        •  Okay, you are 100% right and I am 100%... (0+ / 0-)

          wrong.  So that is simple and a good place to stop.  Thanks for your efforts just the same.  

          The more you learn the less you know.

          by quiet in NC on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 09:46:21 PM PDT

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          •  Reducing my words to that is not an accurate (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jesselyn Radack, LilithGardener

            representation of what I said.

            Poverty = politics.

            by Renee on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 10:04:13 PM PDT

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          •  Society can "expect" "preventative" measures I (5+ / 0-)

            suppose. But who cares? We raise girls to defer to men and to put themselves in dangerous positions. Then we Monday morning quarterback them and tell them they weren't preventative enough.

            I'm telling you that your ideas about preventative actions are not useful to the discussion. We all make mistakes. Dumping on a woman for stupid mistakes might make people feel like they have more control in their own lives, but it's victim blaming. What if as a culture we put all that energy into explaining to young men that no means no, fucked up means no, asleep means no, using your managerial position of power to coerce someone is a no too. And when a woman says no and then goes limp underneath you, that isn't a belated yes. We turn all our youngsters out there with unrealistic ideas and no guidance. That's rape culture. And it isn't just the weak and developmentally delayed who fall victim to it. Do you know anything about this woman? You think you do because she has some impressive job? That is not a good way to assess whether she has a voice or not. And chances are, she doesn't. No matter how savvy she sounds to you. Because otherwise all these goddamned rapes wouldn't be happening.

            Poverty = politics.

            by Renee on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 10:20:08 PM PDT

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        •  So what room is there for discussion? (0+ / 0-)

          Everyone agrees that rape is terrible.

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