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View Diary: Why the "your daughter/wife" meme is necessary (114 comments)

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  •  True some men feel dominant when they can (7+ / 0-)

    prove to other men how easily and how often they can seduce women. And some must keep proving it to themselves all their lives.

    Others, such as the Steubenville crew, attempt to prove dominance within their circle by drugging and raping underage girls. My reading is that what mattered most to them was to be congratulated by their friends for what they got away with.

    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

    by LilithGardener on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 03:52:38 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Right (7+ / 0-)

      The means isn't necessarily important in the mindset - charm, force, manipulation, money.  The point is that sex is something to be taken from women, and succeeding proves something about you.

    •  It's much more. (9+ / 0-)

      In order to survive in a capitalist culture one must have supreme confidence over all obstacles.
      Corporations are dominated by sociopaths. Coaches of teams behave like sociopaths.
      It's up to parents to temper those cultural imperatives.
      Almost all of this is taught.
      I think most children want to get along and not dominate.

      I've tried to get responses to statements that people like the Koch's, Peterson's, de Vos', Coors' etc are sociopaths determined to conquer America and destroy democracy (which they see as a weakness).
      It seems as though any mention that people like Paul Ryan, Rand Paul etc. are sociopaths draws a complete blank. That legislators and billionaires intent on denying food to the hungry, medical care to the sick and willing to send Americans to die for their corporate greed are sociopaths willing to intentionally cause people to die for their profit, all the while smiling.
      Narcissistic sociopaths are the number one problem in America.  Good, caring people will never be able to keep up w/the destruction to our culture and fabric of society that these sociopaths revel in for the benefit of a few billionaires willing to pay people like McConnell and Ryan and etc.
      Cure the problem of sociopaths and all problems in America are manageable.  These are predominately republicans who are the sociopaths, but not exclusively, just mostly by far.
      But that conversation is not gonna happen.

      "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

      by BrianParker14 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:10:44 PM PDT

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      •  There are at least two reason you may draw a (3+ / 0-)

        blank.

        It's a medical term and people throw out medical terms without justification a lot.

        Labeling sociopaths as such doesn't suggest any way forward.

        Some notable Dem sociopaths were well beloved - John Edwards?

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:51:58 PM PDT

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        •  Would 'truly insane' or mentally ill (5+ / 0-)

          be better phrasing to get people to realize that the distractions they throw at us aren't the real problem.  That tearing apart our social fabric is only a fortuitous (for them) distraction while they steal our labor and democracy?
          We keep reacting to their societal bombs and never to the source.
          We have to change the conversation to those who are directing this destruction.

          I understand what you mean by "doesn't suggest any way forward".  It's like injecting hitler into an argument.

          As an example, have President Obama, in a nationally televised speech during prime time say he is wasting his time talking w/Boehner, McConnell etc. and he wants to meet w/their masters, the Kochs, Petersons, Walton's, Coor's, de Vos's etc. and get to the real decision makers.
          But they are mentally ill and that is the real problem.

          And I don't see Edwards as being a sociopath. Sociopaths take peoples lives knowingly or unknowingly.  Edwards was an adulterer and an a..hole. But, politically he seemed to have the interests of the poor. What he did to his dear precious wife is unforgivable.

          And, thank you for responding to my sincere question.

          "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

          by BrianParker14 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 08:22:43 PM PDT

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          •  Sometimes people just want to vent (4+ / 0-)

            but you are spot on with this:

            It's like injecting hitler into an argument.
            What most people want/need is a nudge toward what they can do and why they might want to bother doing it right now.

            Eg, with the new bank fees. Not everyone could afford to move their money, but enough did that it had an impact.

            Eg, the recent Team 26 - Sandy Hook Ride on Washington. Most people couldn't drop their lives and go on a 400 mile bike ride. But enough people stepped up to support those 26 riders, (including yours truly) and they were able to attract national media coverage for their rolling rally from Newtown, CT to Washington, D.C.

            Those 4 days, writing diaries that introduce the riders and their support crew were the best I've felt about gun safety reform in a long time. And the juice from that participation will keep me going for some time in the face of determined opposition.

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 08:38:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thanks again. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              walkshills, cotterperson, dotdash2u

              That's why I think by including it in most conversations about republican actions would be easy.  Just a comment saying these are the outcomes of such and such and action and only someone who is mentally ill would deny food or medicine,etc.  
              Making it part of most conversations instead of ignoring what kind of a person(s) would do such things.

              I sincerely believe we're dealing w/pervasive mental illness and afraid to talk about it.  There are no legitimate conservative arguments that would justify what they're doing to people.

              "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

              by BrianParker14 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 09:41:26 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, but (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                TrueBlueMajority, cotterperson

                that's like saying devout religious people are delusional.

                It may be true that they are, but most people with religious delusions are benign.

                It steers the convo off course for at least two reasons:

                1. People react to what appear to be a demonization or a slur instead of on actionable content.

                2. No one is really qualified to diagnose someone at such length. You are probably right, but no one here has anyway of vetting your qualifications as a diagnostician. And if that were tolerated then other people start diagnosing Schizophrenia, or Bipolar, etc. it just create a mess and people just shout at each other.

                "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                by LilithGardener on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 10:07:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't think it's difficult to characterize (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  kaliope, cotterperson, dotdash2u

                  a billionaire like Pete Peterson who has spent half a billion dollars (through his scam Fix the Debt by way of Simpson-Bowles, Ed Rendell, etc) which is attempting to deny food to hungry children and medicine to the sick and when you look at Simpson laughing and calling poor people idiots while smiling all the way, as mentally ill. They have no legitimate position other than pure greed and malice. Identifying them as mentally ill would really define the conversation in a practical way.
                  But, I do understand what you are saying and of course you are unfortunately right.  But that doesn't mean I won't keep trying to push the point.

                  And yes, devout religious people are scary. I have some friends who are devout and I love them dearly, but they're nuts.

                  "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

                  by BrianParker14 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 10:37:53 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Not sure about that. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    cotterperson

                    I think a lot of it is a need to feel better, superior, more deserving.  Our whole national dialogue is hugely about who "deserves" what (e.g. see Romney's 47%).  Such people, I suspect, often feel they're serving some sort of skewed code of justice--in a very self-serving way, of course.  

                    Some of them, I think, are perhaps less interested in hurting other people and more interested in validating, affirming, and justifying their ability and RIGHT to grab, to take, to do whatever the hell they want.  The two are not mutually exclusive, of course, but it's hubris, entitlement, and arrogance, at least sometimes, as much as it is sociopathic malice.

                    My take, anyway.

                    "If a man loses his reverence for any part of life, he will lose his reverence for all of life." — Albert Schweitzer

                    by mozartssister on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 06:45:07 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  As you sigline says (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      cotterperson, dotdash2u

                      "If a man loses his reverence for any part of life, he will lose his reverence for all of life."
                      I hear that as including "all life".
                      To be unconscious about the pain and suffering of others while still doing everything possible to take even  more from them seems to be a tenet of being a sociopath.
                      A definition:
                       Noun
                      A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
                      Sociopaths deserve anything they want w/o consideration of the pain it will cause others. How much more anti social must a person be than to intentionally destroy all social institutions that benefit people (especially the powerless). To be extremely wealthy, have control over legislators and require them to take from the neediest because they feel they "deserve" it, seems to be a definition of a sociopath, eg Kochs, Peterson's, Coors', Walton's etc.
                      My sigline:

                      "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

                      by BrianParker14 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 09:12:48 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

              •  Your use of these terms is too loose IMO (0+ / 0-)

                Being greedy and self-serving is not enough to call someone a "sociopath", in my book. And the selfishness that drives greed can be based on emotional problems, even spiritual problems--but calling any of this stuff "mental illness" just doesn't fit the consensual opinion in the mental health field. "Evil" is not a mental illness--it cheapens both terms to equate them, IMO.

                •  Your analysis, IMO, seems to ignore (0+ / 0-)

                  the fact that I'm defining people who knowingly deny food and health care to the hungry and sick and send people to die, knowingly, for billion dollar corporations in unnecessary wars.  When a Paul Ryan or a Simpson-Bowles know that by eliminating food programs for the hungry and medical care for children and the sick who will die w/o it, that's a sociopath. And, they smile while doing it.
                  It doesn't even have to be for profit. It's done for the sole purpose of despising the weak and having the ability to take advantage of them, and if the outcome is likely death, so what. That's a sociopath. All while smiling.

                  These people know their actions will absolutely cause deaths. And they smile.  That's a sociopath. Malignant narcissistic sociopath. And intentional "evil" is a mental illness. If not, then there's no such thing as right and wrong, good and bad, it's all just relative.

                  An evil act may not be mental illness, but an evil person is.
                  Civilization has witnessed a society constructed by evil people. They were mentally ill.
                  If you believe all is relative then there really is no reason...

                  "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

                  by BrianParker14 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 08:00:10 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  I don't think John Edwards a sociopath. (4+ / 0-)

          Immature, yeah. Needing something not illegal he wasn't otherwise finding in his life at the time, yeah. Not exactly the ideal father, yeah.

          Based on Elizabeth Edwards' final diary on this website, it appears she also did not consider her husband of many years a psychopath. She considered him immature.

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