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View Diary: You See Where This is Headed, Right? (271 comments)

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  •  So, who is better than Hillary? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MPociask, caul, kurt

    In 2008 I was a Hillarybot. I got on board with Obama, because McCain Romney.

    For 2016, I'm not so sure. In retrospect, I don't care for the dynastic approach, and I've been wondering, since the economy blew up (thanks, Bill, for signing the repeal of Glass Steagall) if Hillary is actually progressive.

    •  In 2008 (22+ / 0-)

      Hillary was surrounded by the most venal corporatist DLC types in the party, chosen by her to run her campaign.  People like Lanny Davis and Mark Penn.  Even Obama was a more plausible progressive than Hillary was, and that's saying something.

      I'm hope, hope, hoping for Elizabeth Warren to run.  Even though I know better than to put faith in a politician, I love how the woman speaks plain truth to the oligarchs.  I bet the more people hear her, the more a lot of folks will love it too.  That's the kind of Democratic candidate we need.

      Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

      by Dallasdoc on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:37:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And there would be a coolness factor (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dallasdoc

        to have two women as the top two people running for the nomination. Imagine another prolonged primary period (similar to Clinton-Obama) but this time with Warren & Clinton. Would be great to see Warren staking out the left in such a scenario. And maybe a better chance that she'd govern left than Obama ended up doing.

        Don't trust anyone over 84414

        by BentLiberal on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:43:05 PM PDT

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      •  I don't know that Warren has the (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dallasdoc, peregrine kate, caul, Nulwee, kurt

        desire or native ability to be President.  I say that as someone with the utmost respect for her (although my positions on many issues are well to her Left on many issues) intelligence and her common sense.

        I don't want to wave around a "Executive Experience" issue card, but it's there.  

        She's definitely among the top 5 people I would pick who have even a remote chance of winning, but I don't know if she even wants it.

        income gains to the top 1% from 2009 to 2011 were 121% of all income increases. How did that happen? Incomes to the bottom 99% fell by 0.4%

        by JesseCW on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:49:58 PM PDT

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        •  Agree and Disagree (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dallasdoc, kurt

          I agree that she doesn't appear most likely to run at this point.

          On the other hand, I could totally picture her as the president, despite the fact that she does not fit the mold of many of the presidents we've had recently.

          "Today is who you are" - my wife

          by I Lurked For Years on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:53:38 PM PDT

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        •  How much executive experience did Obama have? (2+ / 0-)

          Warren has already shown that when thwarted in one direction, she's not afraid to move up.  Since she's not likely to be a mover and shaker in the Senate, especially on the Banking Cmte. where she's probably destined to remain a gadfly, another move up might not seem entirely out of the question for her.  Especially if she gets a lot of grassroots encouragement.

          Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

          by Dallasdoc on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:58:36 PM PDT

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          •  How did Obama turn out? (0+ / 0-)

            I want to be clear - I'm not against her.  I really don't think we've got a snowballs chance in 2016 and I'd much prefer to get someone who can sell real Democratic ideals even if they're probably going to lose.

            Because changing the conversation matters.

            But management is a strength, and it's not one she's had the opportunity to display on a very large scale yet.

            income gains to the top 1% from 2009 to 2011 were 121% of all income increases. How did that happen? Incomes to the bottom 99% fell by 0.4%

            by JesseCW on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 08:10:22 PM PDT

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    •  We're going to need a hell of a lot more than (18+ / 0-)

      Presidential candidates.  The degree to which our Party has focused on the White House since the 1980's while ignoring most of the rest of government (and, increasingly, governance) has been a major problem.

      That said, I don't consider either Clinton to be remotely Progressive.  I firmly believe that the political conditions that would allow Hillary Clinton to win the general would also allow much better candidates to win the general.

      I don't see a hairs breadth of difference in real political positions between Clinton and Obama (although I thought I did five and half years ago).

      It's DLC Vrs. New Democrat.

      I don't hold out a lot of hope for our Presidential chances in 2016 without massive change in our Party or absolutely staggering stupidity (I won't rule it out) on the part of the Republicans.  

      income gains to the top 1% from 2009 to 2011 were 121% of all income increases. How did that happen? Incomes to the bottom 99% fell by 0.4%

      by JesseCW on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:43:52 PM PDT

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      •  Right, here's my take (5+ / 0-)

        If we elect a Democrat to the Presidency but have Republican control of local and state governments, as well as half the Congress and the Supreme Court, not to mention lower courts, school boards, etc., then we're screwed. Because even though the  Presidency has the highest visibility, the entire Executive Branch is still just one third of the government; The President really doesn't have as much power as we imagine. However, everyone blames the party holding the Presidency when things go wrong, and votes the other Party in. Then Republicans control everything.
        Was that clear as mud?

        To keep our faces turned toward change, and behave as free spirits in the presence of fate--that is strength undefeatable. (Helen Keller)

        by kareylou on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 08:26:59 PM PDT

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        •  The White House unfortunately holds a lot more (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kareylou, scorinaldi, kurt

          than a third of the power today.  There are few restraints left on the Imperial Presidency.

          However, we're not going to get a lot better viable candidates for the White House unless we get a lot better people in other offices.  The Party Machine plays a much bigger role in determining who is allowed to run for what offices than the voters do.

          To change that machine, we have to change who's running it.

          income gains to the top 1% from 2009 to 2011 were 121% of all income increases. How did that happen? Incomes to the bottom 99% fell by 0.4%

          by JesseCW on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 08:55:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  how? (0+ / 0-)

            To keep our faces turned toward change, and behave as free spirits in the presence of fate--that is strength undefeatable. (Helen Keller)

            by kareylou on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 09:23:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  When was the last time you went to a (5+ / 0-)

              local party meeting?

              And how many like minded registered democrats do you think you could get to show up and vote with you?

              This is a question for everyone out there right now that's pissed at the party. If you want a different party then GOTV to party meetings. Identify potential progressive leaders, yourself even, and push them up. Grass roots.

              •  Point well taken. Totally agree. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                AoT

                I am involved in my local party, and I live in a little blue dot in the middle of red Virginia. I have stepped away thus far in 2013 to address some major personal health/financial/life issues, but you are absolutely right.
                I just wasn't sure what you meant exactly by "Party Machine" and if there was some action other than what I was already doing that you were advocating.
                Of course the person who wrote Party Machine and you are two different people, so you could have different things in mind.

                To keep our faces turned toward change, and behave as free spirits in the presence of fate--that is strength undefeatable. (Helen Keller)

                by kareylou on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 07:27:29 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Which is just basically .... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JesseCW, caul, gulfgal98

        It's DLC Vs. New Democrat.

        a re-branding .. they are essentially the same

    •  short answer (0+ / 0-)

      It really does not matter who it is.  To get elected, a candidate must sell his or her soul.  Honest and good people need not apply. The fix is in and has been.  It just wasn't as obvious until now.

      "Growing up is for those who don't have the guts not to. Grow wise, grow loving, grow compassionate, but why grow up?" - Fiddlegirl

      by gulfgal98 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 05:35:11 AM PDT

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