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  •  as an aside, nearly all the founders of the neocon (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nanorich, a2nite

    movement were former Trotskyites. Then they became Democrats and worked for Scoop Jackson.

    The hyper-authoritarianism of the looney left isn't very different from that of the looney right.

    •  looney left? where are these folks, i wanna talk (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Marti, OldSoldier99, Aunt Pat

      Howard Fineman needs to have a chat with Chris Cilizza about Grecian Formula and its effects on punditry

      by memofromturner on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 04:57:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Try the Symbionese Liberation Army (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pluto, offgrid, Calamity Jean

        There were some others around that time. They had disappeared after the Vietnam War ended and Nixon resigned.

        There were the communists of various stripes in the 30's, too, but they disappeared after the unions kicked them out, the Democrats disavowed them and the federal government under J. Edgar Hoover went big time McCarthyist on them. The organizations were destroyed and the ideas they offered became grounds for loss of security clearances.

        The US Supreme Court has by its actions and rhetoric has ceased to be legitimate. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - over

        by Rick B on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 08:40:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Really? Hyper-authoritarians on the left? Where? (9+ / 0-)

      Point me in their direction! Who on the left thinks the Soviet Union or Communist China is the model to emulate? Do tell!
      They've gotta have a website!

      (See, when you say shit like "looney left," we know you listen to Bill O'Reilly and don't know jack about the actual progressive movement.)

      If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

      by rhetoricus on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 05:24:37 PM PDT

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      •  here's a few: (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tb mare, rhetoricus, varro

        Communist Party USA
        Revolutionary Communist Party
        Progressive Labor Party
        International Socialist Organization
        Socialist Workers Party
        Maoist Internationalist Movement
        Revolutionary Workers League
        Socialist Alternative
        US Marxist-Leninist Organization
        Workers World Party

        All of them are Maoist, Trotskyist, or Stalinist. They think the Soviet Union, or Communist China, or Communist Cuba, are a good model to emulate.  And all are authoritarian (many of them are essentially run by one person). And you can meet them at virtually any large protest in DC, New York, San Francisco, and most other places.

        Methinks you  don't know quite so much as you think you do . . . .

        PS--since I myself am a Marxist, it's not their marxism that I think makes them looney---it's their rigid doctrinaire centralist hyper-authoritarianism.

        •  Well, hell. (0+ / 0-)

          Maybe I don't know as much as I thought I did after all. I've worked on the left for a very long time and never met a defender of totalitarianism or violent overthrow. The furthest to the left I've encountered are folks who advocate Democratic Socialism as it's seen in Scandinavia today. Some may call themselves Marxists, but they believe Soviet Union and China betrayed Marxism.

          These you mentioned must have had their heyday a good while ago?

          If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

          by rhetoricus on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 10:04:28 AM PDT

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          •  I don't know how you missed them---I run into them (0+ / 0-)

            all the time.  They were at every large Occupy rally I was ever at, and they are regulars at any decent-sized protest or demonstration in DC or New York or San Fran.

            These you mentioned must have had their heyday a good while ago?
            The entire progressive left in the US (such as it is) had its heyday a long time ago. Now most "liberals" are just Eisenhower Republicans who aren't old enough to have ever even SEEN a real political Left. (shrug)
          •  Leftist in the US (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dlemex

            are the conservatist everywhere else.

            •  that is very true (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rhetoricus

              If the people who yell and scream about "the radical left" in the US were to go overseas and see a REAL radical left, they'd shit their pants in terror.

              •  Yep (0+ / 0-)

                Must be why kos was SO annoyed with ANSWER's influence and control over the anti-Iraq invasion demonstrations.

                I missed these authoritarian guys probably because I haven't often lived in a big city, and when I have, I've been mostly confined within academic circles, where you have your self-proclaimed Marxists, but they're philosophers, not pro-authoritarian or pro-violence revolutionaries. Even edgy, wild, open events like Burning Man wouldn't be terribly welcoming to pro-authoritarians.

                I looked up those groups you mentioned and I almost had trouble believing they were real and not provocateur fronts. Creepy that it kind of gives credence to the FOX News "communio-fascist" conflations. Totalitarianism looks pretty much the same whatever flavor it comes in, doesn't it? I mean, the "communist" Soviets weren't exactly kinder and gentler than the WW2 fascists? Yeeks.

                It does seem like the right wing is looking to lump the entire progressive movement with the groups you mention.

                If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

                by rhetoricus on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 01:40:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  this was my entire point: (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  rhetoricus
                  Totalitarianism looks pretty much the same whatever flavor it comes in, doesn't it?
                  That is why the neocons had no trouble jumping from the Trots to the Birchers.  They share the same sort of authoritarian nuttiness. The looney right isn't very different from the looney left.

                  An ironic example of that is Hitler's Nazis.  The official name of the Nazi Party is the "National Socialist German Workers Party".  Note the leftist name.  The Nazis were, in their early history, a weird conglomeration of both radical left AND radical right activists.  It wasn't until the Night of the Long Knives, when Rohm and his leftwing cohorts were all killed (in what was more a personal/factional power fight than a real ideological fight), that the Nazis became the rightwing party we know and hate today.

                  It does seem like the right wing is looking to lump the entire progressive movement with the groups you mention.
                  They've always done that.  Since the 1840's.  (shrug)
                  •  It's helpful to be able to clarify that.. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    dlemex

                    centralized authoritarianism is the common thread, rather than trying to argue that "right" and "left" are opposites, so there is no value to the comparison.

                    This really illustrates how unhelpful, ultimately, the terms "right" and "left" are.

                    If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

                    by rhetoricus on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 02:58:46 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  They were Trots? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      irishwitch, Calamity Jean

      They always kind of impressed me as Stalinists.

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