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View Diary: Iraq, Iran and the folly of preventive war (45 comments)

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  •  threat? (0+ / 0-)

    How is Iran a threat to the "western ruling class"?

    Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

    by Sky Net on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 05:29:50 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  They are not (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      truong son traveler

      but just like those supposed aluminum tubes that Saddam was seeking the "ruling class" will use that as their weapon of mass destruction. At will.

      There are no sacred cows.

      by LaEscapee on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 05:34:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Same reasons and more that it was in 1953. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      truong son traveler

      "The Global War OF Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

      by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 05:36:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You and LaEscapee differ in that analysis (0+ / 0-)

        I'll let you guys work that out.

        Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

        by Sky Net on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 05:40:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's very kind, although I have no idea what (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          truong son traveler

          you're talking about.

          "The Global War OF Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

          by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 05:43:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  threats (0+ / 0-)

            You said that Iran is a threat to the western ruling class, though you haven't mentioned how.  LaEscapee said Iran is not a threat.  That's how you differ.  More clear?

            Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

            by Sky Net on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 06:08:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Distinction without a difference (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              truong son traveler

              If you read the comments we both say they are not a threat yet the ruling class gin them up as if they were.

              I'm done here because obviously the intent is not genuine because if you researched either of us you would undersatnd

              There are no sacred cows.

              by LaEscapee on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 06:12:03 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Big Al (0+ / 0-)

                I believe the title of Big Al's comment is "Iran is a threat to the western ruling class".  That seems pretty definitive.

                Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

                by Sky Net on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 06:15:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  A threat to it's hegemony and world domination. (3+ / 0-)

                  The same old thing.  LE knows that, he was referring to WMDs and other security dangers.  We agree.

                  "The Global War OF Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

                  by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 06:19:50 PM PDT

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                  •  WMD (0+ / 0-)

                    I think we'd all agree that Iran doesn't really pose a big security threat, I'm with you there.  But Iran posing a threat to "world domination"?  Iran doesn't pose a threat to anyone, full stop.  What the hell is little Iran going to do?

                    Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

                    by Sky Net on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 06:23:16 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Are you being sarcastic on me, can't figure out (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      truong son traveler

                      your angle.  
                      Never mind, like I said, it's a waste of time.

                      "The Global War OF Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

                      by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 06:42:07 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Not sarcastic (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        LaEscapee

                        Just trying to figure out what possible threat Iran could be to anybody's plans for "global domination".  I can't imagine what they could possibly do.

                        Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

                        by Sky Net on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 06:54:38 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  See the problem with the internet is that people (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          truong son traveler

                          will bait you, try to get you to say something that they're fully aware of so they can shoot it down and/or ridicule it.  Playing games.  
                          Not saying you are doing that, it appears not, but it's happened to me numerous times when discussing things like this.
                          I do think this diary actually promotes the idea that a "preventive" war on Iran would be because of a nuke or nuclear capability which I don't feel is the case.  And if that's not the case, there must be a different reason or reasons for attacking Iran. I believe there are numerous reasons.    
                          Have a good evening, got go get some food.  

                          "The Global War OF Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

                          by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 07:07:45 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  None whatsoever (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          truong son traveler, Sandino

                          And I think that is the point we all are attempting to make.

                          Gulf of Tonkin, WMD's,Aluminum Tubes there will always be a reason for those seeking profit. It's not a new game they just change the rules to deceive the fans to convince them they still matter.

                          I know that is a pretty simplistic statement but just like "If you build it they will come" was a great line it's a  true and effective approach that propogandists use to motivate the buyer. These are way deep thoughts and opinions I appreciate the fact you discussed without accusing. I don't kn ow where we are headed let's hope it's not into the abyss.

                          You have a good night brother peace on us all man

                          There are no sacred cows.

                          by LaEscapee on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 07:26:57 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, LaEscapee and I have cleared it up thru (2+ / 0-)

              personal messages and we now agree that we can't talk about that shit on this site.  
              But it's only fair since it's about electing democrats.  I don't even know why they allow diaries about Iran on here anyway.  What's that have to do with electing democrats?

              "The Global War OF Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

              by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 06:17:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  No pretty sure we don't (4+ / 0-)

          It's a scam  the "ruling class" manufacture reasons just as they did in 53 in attempts to become imperialists. Whether it be oil or dirt, TPTB will always find a reason

          There are no sacred cows.

          by LaEscapee on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 05:45:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Iran, as written in the Brookings study (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BigAlinWashSt, Sandino, allenjo

      Which Path to Persia, (downloadable in PDF format on the Internet) "undermines US interests" in the Persian Gulf Region.

      US interests, which are the interests of the "western ruling class" include unencumbered access to products, resources and markets of foreign countries. Iran learned an unpleasant lesson from obstructing US - British interests in 1953.

      Iran now refuses to bow to US - Israeli hegemony in the region, refuses to allow access and so unsurprisingly finds itself on the neocon hit-list for regime change.

      There is much bluster among politicians and policy makers about the Iranian nuclear program. Seldom is there the use of the word "weapons" but it keeps the hype going.

      Orwell - "Political language ... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable"

      by truong son traveler on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 08:07:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  market access (0+ / 0-)

        The US is the one with sanctions on Iran, blocking access to Iranian products, so I'm not sure what you mean by Iran not allowing access.  It's quite the opposite.  If we wanted, Iran would happily sell us all the products we'd like to buy.  They want to buy our products as well, but we won't let them.

        Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

        by Sky Net on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 08:18:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Iran was about to nationalize their oil (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BigAlinWashSt, Sandino, allenjo

          in 1953 after a disagreement with the company that would become BP. Iran asked for a 50/50 split on the oil concessions. The Brits refused, they liked the 80/20 split which had expired, and called upon the US for assistance.

          This resulted in regime change, the return of the Shah and the blowback of 1979.

          We engineered two regime changes in Iraq in the 1960's because we feared they were going to nationalize their oil.

          This gave rise to Saddam who assisted and we made good use of him as long as he supported our interests. We turned our heads as he was gassing the Kurds because US agricultural interests were selling rice to Iraq. He used chemical weapons against Iran in the 8 year war that served our interests.

          Chavez in Venezuela was demonized for nationalizing his nation's oil, kicking out Exxon, which greatly pissed off the ruling class, the US establishment. A regime change attempt in 2002 resulted in failure.

          A few related examples to demonstrate how our interests influence our policies, the policies of the establishment, the ruling class.

          Orwell - "Political language ... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable"

          by truong son traveler on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 10:16:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Iran also refuses to hold fair/free elections. nt (0+ / 0-)
    •  They tried to sell Oil (0+ / 0-)

      for Euros, or other currencies...

      •  And that's a threat (0+ / 0-)

        because..... how?

        Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

        by Sky Net on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 01:40:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Because the agreement to sell (0+ / 0-)

          oil only in dollars keeps the dollar afloat as the world reserve currency, which in turn allows massive military spending by the US, which is their lifeblood.  Was that a snarky question, or did you really not know?

          •  Really (0+ / 0-)

            Just because of oil?  Guess what, hundreds of millions of people in Europe use Euros every day.  And lots of other people use a multitude of other currencies.  The dollar is the reserve currency because it's stable, not because of oil purchases.  Jesus.

            And it doesn't matter what currency is the reserve currency, the U.S. government collects taxes in US dollars and spends it in US dollars.  It wouldn't affect military spending in the slightest if people bought oil in Euros or pesos.

            Do you really believe that stuff you write?

            Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

            by Sky Net on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 02:35:56 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So you really are ignorant (0+ / 0-)

              good, I thought you were just trolling.

              •  I figured (0+ / 0-)

                That would be the best response you could muster.  You can't actually explain any of what you believe, right?  You just believe it.

                Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

                by Sky Net on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 01:10:31 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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