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View Diary: Goldman Sachs & Bain Capital are in Deep Pooh Pooh This Time? (61 comments)

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  •  I goes without saying that Glass-Steagall (6+ / 0-)

    and laws like it were enacted precisely to prevent this sort of manufactured fraud, a classic example being the investment banking division of a bank that issues an IPO intentionally underpricing it so that its sales and trading division, which gets a fat slice of the offering, can sell it at huge markup on issue day. This is essentially the same thing as insider trading, exploiting inside access and information to gain unfair competitive advantage. It's a big part of why our economy sucks for most people, because it's no longer meant to benefit them. Finance is supposed to serve the needs of the economy, not vice-versa.

    Go at 'em, Laser, and ruin more than a few of their lives.

    Plus, as a perhaps unnecessary and ill-advised aside, as a Jew (who's worked on Wall St., albeit in IT), I find it especially embarrassing, painful and even frightening to see how many Jews are involved in these scams (I'd feel the same were I a Mormon, about creeps like Romney), as it goes against my religion's core tenets to engage in these crimes, which are betrayals of the public trust and the exact opposite of "Tikkun Olam" (doing good). Plus, they're bound to lead to a rise in organized antisemitism, which tends to accompany prolonged economic downturns that are linked to banking misdeeds.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 08:02:29 AM PDT

    •  kovie - I;m a yid too - and it is has nothing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kovie

      to do with the fact that "many" (higher profile) bad faith parties are yids.

      Romney's is a Mormon.

      I'm not attacking the good people of that faith - just because some of their higher ups are ebol.

      That would be like attacking a fellow kossack, for being American, because GW Bush is one (purportedly)!


      Mitt Romney was CEO of Bain until Aug 2001. Proof of Bain & Romney Fraud

      by laserhaas on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 01:00:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I know it's not because they're Jewish or Mormon (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        laserhaas

        Rather, I'm sad and upset that they do this BECAUSE they're Jewish or Mormon, especially since I'm the former.

        Plus, the inevitable antisemitism when this happens.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 01:16:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know, I face it all the time. While this saga (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kovie

          has been going on - I help senior citizens in foreclosure, eviction and probate estate fraud cases.

          One case was a man who was Lebonese and his wife was Jewish. When she passed away (due to Fen Phen) - her two sons (of course being yids' by Hebrew law/tradition) - decided to forge a will and toss the ole man out of the house they were born and raised in - for 30 years.

          They stole $1.8 million - because he never could read or write (wife handled it all).

          Even though the probate law in CA states that the surviving spouse has 60 days - and can evict those over 18 - he hired an attorney who was a friend of his sons.

          When the kids gambled and snorted away the $1.8 million - they then went to take away their dads house (Life Estate)

          If it had been 2 minority kids taking a Jewish ole man's home - it would have been a nationwide case.

          That is why I "paid" $10,000 out of my pocket (his fees and expenses) - to take the case. The kids were breaking Halakha law.

          Though he was evicted on the day I moved in to protect him (and the kids threatened me with a knife) - I managed to get a 3 year Restraining Order for physical, mental and financial abuse.

          Would have gotten the house too - if they dad had not lied to the judge (trying to stiff me the $10,000 he owed me) - (apple not far from that tree).

          The old man and sons I regret knowing;
          but the issue was worth the battle


          Mitt Romney was CEO of Bain until Aug 2001. Proof of Bain & Romney Fraud

          by laserhaas on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 01:32:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wow, sad case (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            laserhaas

            I wish we had you as a lawyer. My family's been involved in a situation not entirely different from this. I may kosmail you with some details to ask if you can refer me to good local resources or offer general advice to help deal with it. One of the reasons I get so livid about injustice is that it's happened to us.

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 01:51:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Kovie - I would be HAPPY to help - (1+ / 0-)
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              kovie

              Just remember - I'm only helping to educate you of other cases out there -

              I Am NOT an attorney or advisor

              Just one who actually gives a [c]hit about this stuff.

              (BTW - we are helping in New York with probate corruption by the courts (see Ethicsgate ))

              My left arm better - is filing a D.C. suit on this very issue.

              You can email me at laser.haas@yahoo.com

              Glad to help.


              Mitt Romney was CEO of Bain until Aug 2001. Proof of Bain & Romney Fraud

              by laserhaas on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 02:08:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Illegal...really. This does not happen. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      laserhaas
      the investment banking division of a bank that issues an IPO intentionally underpricing it so that its sales and trading division, which gets a fat slice of the offering, can sell it at huge markup on issue day.
      The shares have to be sold at the issue price, there is no way a bank can do what you describe.

      Lots of other stuff, sure, but not this.

      •  Balto, if you are going to defend bad faith - do (0+ / 0-)

        so LOGICALLY,

        the share price is set by how much Goldman Sachs gets commits for. They had offers to buy at higher prices and set the price low - with a CONTRACT that said they would only make $1.5 per share commission.

        By doing the "spinning" and making - ILLEGAL - back door deals with "friends" to spin/split the money 50/50 - that the "friends" made

        they were engaging in a Conflict of Interest - self serving - at the direct detriment of their client (eToys).

        A fact I was able to prove - UNTIL - their (secret) law firm asked for - and Received

        Permission to Destroy the Books & Records
        http://petters-fraud.com/...


        Mitt Romney was CEO of Bain until Aug 2001. Proof of Bain & Romney Fraud

        by laserhaas on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 01:37:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  again...I am not commenting... (0+ / 0-)

          on the fact pattern of your specific case.  However, unless this IPO was one in a million, I am positive the dollar value of the underwriters commission and the selling concession were not set until the offering price was determined.  

          There are always indications of interest to purchase a stock at a higher price.  So what?  

          The share price is, in my considerable experience,  set by figuring out how much demand there is for an offering, taking into consideration at what price you can generate significant follow-on demand, and then estimating what the fully distributed trading price is likely to be.   That is, the price the stock is expected to trade at when the offering process is fully resolved.   I use words like "estimating" and "likely" intentionally because you are discovering a price for something that has never had a price before.  Hence an art, not a science.

          Now of course "spinning" and other nasty things took place, and are now forbidden.  I am just trying to inform this group what a typical IPO process is like, and specifically why offerings are sometimes priced well below where they may trade the first day.

      •  And how is the issue price set? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        laserhaas

        Obviously they can't sell it below that price, but they can set it lower than it should be in all sorts of "legitimate" ways by playing with the numbers.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 02:09:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Correct. ("quasi-legitimate ways") - However (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kovie

          there can be NO argument of good faith intent - once Goldman Sachs used its (secret) law firm to become eToys attorney.

          And GSachs knows this - I've told everyone I could at Sullivan & Cromwell, Pomerantz and Wachtel & Masyr.

          The "Fix" was "IN" - because they (believed) Romney would become POTUS.

          Fortunately - for our country - "that" (POTUS) scheme

          FAILED!

          -----------------------

          ALso, it was - (just 12 weeks ago) that MNAT (GSachs and Bain's attorney) lied and cheated me again.

          They are going to get their butt spanked Big TIME!


          Mitt Romney was CEO of Bain until Aug 2001. Proof of Bain & Romney Fraud

          by laserhaas on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 02:16:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Due to my family's experiences (0+ / 0-)

            over the past few years I've grown to respect some lawyers, but to despise most, as hacks literally only interested in exploiting their clients for money.

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 02:44:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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