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View Diary: Book review: David Neiwert's 'And Hell Followed With Her' (240 comments)

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  •  If self defense were not (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ER Doc, happy camper, gerrilea

    a legitimate justification for owning and/or using a gun, no state would have self defense listed in their criminal codes as a legitimate justification for gun USE, proceeding upon the implicit 'given' that Americans have a second amendment right to keep and bear arms. Per my experience and knowledge since my great-grandparent's time it has always been legal to protect home and family with a gun should the need arise.

    Far as I can tell, it's been legal since before there was a United States of America to have and use a firearm to protect home and family from direct threat, at least for enfranchised white males and derivative to their wimmin-folk, kids and designated agents.

    •  But it's not the unlimited right (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Joieau, Smoh, Avila, splintersawry

      that the NRA claims. Steve King's claim that he has a Second Amendment right to his AR-15 with a 30-round magazine (yes, he has one) would probably not be upheld even in the current Roberts court if Congress passed the assault weapons ban.

      •  Perhaps, perhaps not. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cocinero, ER Doc, happy camper, gerrilea

        I don't much care. I'd support even greater restrictions, especially in urban areas. But nobody listens to me, especially not anyone in the legislature or the judicial systems.

        And as of right now Steve King is correct - he has the right to both the gun and the magazine, as well as to the ammunition. The question is whether or not that right will be compromised in the future, and whether King, et al. get grandfathered. Or the gub'ment wants to go door to door... which is probably not a great idea, all things considered.

        That's just reality, like it or not.

        •  Agreed (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Joieau, Avila, Smoh

          I don't think King has to worry. No one is going to take his AR-15. If an assault weapons ban becomes law (not likely, but possible, at least in some states) it almost certainly will grandfather in existing weapons for their owners (but they might not be able to legally sell them).

          Until the Heller and McDonald decisions, courts consistently upheld gun control laws and the Supreme Court consistently refused to review those rulings.

          Courts have been on the side of gun control laws, but the NRA has worked hard to get pro-gun judges in office. That's why they fought so hard (and successfully) against the confirmation of Caitlin Halligan for the D.C. circuit.

      •  Not the point, moving the goal posts establishes (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Joieau

        the failure here.

        From this:

        Those decisions gave legal credence to the claim that people have a Second Amendment right to a gun for self defense.
        To this:
        But it's not the unlimited right
        How can there be a legitimate discussion when you do this???

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 10:55:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hint: It's not a legitimate discussion. (0+ / 0-)

          Period. Nor can it be a legitimate discussion at this time and place. Best to understand and accept that for what it is. Emotions talking, and emotions don't communicate very well in plain English.

          Every single time I've ever had to use my gun in a defensive situation, I have been afraid. When the need has arisen to the point of commitment, however, my pissed off-ness beats the fear every time. That at least facilitates a good show, and a good show has proven to be a useful thing. That's the 'paranoid' card being played here. Yet I've discovered that my aim isn't all that bad when I'm afraid. At least, not with a shotgun [point it in the general direction]. Which is why I have a shotgun.

          I am not afraid of guns, nor am I afraid of people with guns. I fear those situations for which a gun is the best tool. Only a few times in my life has such a situation involved a human on the business end, and none involved discharge. So far, I'm entirely pleased with the usefulness of the tool for the purpose.

          All in all, I'd rate rabid coons and starving, injured dogs (left in the woods every year by asshole hunters) as much scarier than those humans have thus far been. But it's all an adrenalin rush that can leave one shaky for hours after the tense situation is over. Bears are a rush too, though a shotgun - or whole classes of guns - are absolutely NOT the correct tool against the nuisance. Did chase one out of the trash one day with a garden rake (she really pissed me off). About gave my grandson a heart attack...

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