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View Diary: The Iraq War wasn't the reason for the resurgent Left, Bush was (212 comments)

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  •  Don't get me wrong, (0+ / 0-)

    Reagan should have been impeached for Iran-Contra.  That was worse than Watergate.  Nixon also opened diplomatic channels with China.  He was a "realist."  Neoconservatism failed, but not all Republicans are neocons.  Iraq was a perfect storm where because of a combination of domestic political opportunism, corporate opportunism, militarism. and xenophobic fear, the other groups were co-opted in the same way many democrats were co-opted, but that's what makes it a special case, that and the horror of it.  I don't know that other republicans would have affirmatively pressed for war in Iraq in particular to the degree Cheney did; Nixon would have been too smart to.  Other republican failures incurred greater opposition from within the party, and nowadays the isolationist strain of the party is on the rise once more.

    Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

    by Loge on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 09:13:00 AM PDT

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    •  Nixon scuttled an end to Vietnam (0+ / 0-)

      ...costing years and tens of thousands of American lives and maybe as many as a million Vietnamese lives or more. Iraq isn't a pimple on Vietnam's ass as far as mass slaughter is concerned. And these same people are the architects of both nightmares.

      They are also responsible for Iran-Contra, while I honestly believe Reagan was not only in the dark about it but largely out of his mind by then. Remember, he was deep into Alzheimer's by the end of his presidency. If you caught him on the wrong day, "I can't recall" would have been an honest answer to anything and everything up to and including "what is your name?". The guy was gone, nobody home anymore.

      It's frightening how much horror and treason the Nixon cabal is responsible for, right up through GWB's regime. (I refuse to call it a presidency). I suggest reading up on it with all the lights on, and don't expect to sleep for a while after.

      "Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone who sees what's going on? Read between the lines, criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself, and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet." --Geoff Tate, Queensryche

      by DarthMeow504 on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 06:17:47 PM PDT

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      •  I know all that (0+ / 0-)

        but Nixon was too smart to fall for Iraq.  You wouldn't have had Iraq without Dubya's messianic visions, to go along with Cheney's cynicism.  How much did God tell Nixon to do, good Quaker he?  He'd tell God to fuck himself if He suggested invading and occupying Iraq.

        Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

        by Loge on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 09:44:53 PM PDT

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        •  Nixon had Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos (0+ / 0-)

          ...which as I said were worse than Iraq  by orders of magnitude.

          I think you give GWB too much credit. It doesn't matter what he said, wanted, or believed. Cheney and the other neocons (Nixon alumni, almost every one) were in charge. Bush was president in name only.

          Remember, Iraq was planned out before Bush was ever president, by largely the same people who ended up implementing it. Bush was a puppet, nothing more.

          "Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone who sees what's going on? Read between the lines, criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself, and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet." --Geoff Tate, Queensryche

          by DarthMeow504 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 at 10:12:22 PM PDT

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          •  you give Johnson too little credit (0+ / 0-)

            Cambodia and Laos were extensions of Vietnam, which Nixon inhereited.  The theory behind the war was also different from the theory of Iraq.

            Cheney couldn't have sold the war without Bush.  And don't tell me to "remember" things in such a condescending manner. I know about PNAC, but the question of the weight to be assigned to it.  

            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

            by Loge on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 12:11:45 PM PDT

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            •  Johnson was ENDING the Vietnam war (0+ / 0-)

              ...and Nixon deliberately scuttled the peace talks. If he had not, the war would have been over before Johnson's successor would have ever been inaugurated. Nixon would have inherited a post-war period, but instead he extended the war for years and expanded it in new and deadly ways.

              And Colin Powell did more to sell the Iraq War than Bush ever did. Another puppet would have worked just as well.

              "Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone who sees what's going on? Read between the lines, criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself, and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet." --Geoff Tate, Queensryche

              by DarthMeow504 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 07:00:02 PM PDT

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