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View Diary: Bitcoin Bubble Bound to Burst (52 comments)

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  •  It seems like some market or method has to (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DeadHead

    spring up that allows for shorting these. Or they'll just get hoarded after they hit a certain price and keep going up. Who knows how far it could get run up.

    And after a second of search I found this which says that there are going to be markets opening. We could see a drop when the option to short becomes available.

    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

    by AoT on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 03:48:56 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  People reading this (0+ / 0-)

      Should know that AoT is an OWSer and has a vested interest in pushing a pro-Bitcoin narrative regardless of how dangerous, irrational and unstable it may seem.

      Deficits don't matter, jobs do.

      by aguadito on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 04:27:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What the hell? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DeadHead

        I'm not pro or anti bit coin, I think it's an interesting experiment and I have absolutely no vested interest in it. You seem to have an irrational hatred of it and I'm betting you've been here before under a different name given how you're treating me and what you are saying about me. Should I accuse you of being a sock puppet and a shill trying to crash the bit coin market by spreading nonsense, because that's a far more reasonable explanation given the fact that you are clearly not knowledgeable enough about the situation to know that there are methods of shorting bit coins. You just ignore that inconvenient fact.

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 04:33:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Interesting (0+ / 0-)

          I've laid out a reasonable holistic analysis of the bitcoin market, and you're accusing me of an "irrational hatred".

          Everyone here needs to know that CampBX, the firm AoT is citing, DOES NOT OFFER MARGIN OR SHORT-SELLING! This poor guy was googling and saw them advertising that but doesn't know that this feature is disabled with them as it's "in the works":

          https://campbx.com/...

          And so in addition to lying about me ignoring something, you've also accused me now of having some other name? I don't even know where you're going with this.

          I was suspicious of you because of the pro-bitcoin narrative you were really pushing on extremely shaky ground. Sure enough you're part of groups that have been participating in the push for bitcoin.

          Austrian economics, Occupiers, they love this currency. But the facts are pointing away from this phony value.

          I couldn't benefit from bitcoin going down, because short-selling IS NOT AVAILABLE!!!

          Deficits don't matter, jobs do.

          by aguadito on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 04:45:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So you will be able to short sell them (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DeadHead

            And probably soon. You really want to make me look like someone who is shilling for bit coin, which is funny given the fact that you're really excited to scare as many people aware from it as possible.

            Everyone here needs to know that CampBX, the firm AoT is citing, DOES NOT OFFER MARGIN OR SHORT-SELLING! This poor guy was googling and saw them advertising that but doesn't know that this feature is disabled with them as it's "in the works":
            That link just goes to the FAQ, but yes after more poking around it looks like they haven't started offering it. The pertinent text: "Short Selling will be enabled on livenet when platform liquidity crosses a preset threshold. This feature is available on CampBX testnet if you would like to try it out in the meantime."

            So it could happen soon, it could be longer. The whole thing is an experiment, so these markets have to be built if they're going to exist, they don't just magically happen.

            I was suspicious of you because of the pro-bitcoin narrative you were really pushing on extremely shaky ground. Sure enough you're part of groups that have been participating in the push for bitcoin.
            You clearly don't understand how occupy works. Some people involved are libertarians and go for that whole thing, definitely not me.
            Austrian economics, Occupiers, they love this currency. But the facts are pointing away from this phony value.
            I don't love the currency, as I've said before. And I think that the Austrian economists are fucking idiots everyone of them.

            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

            by AoT on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 05:05:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You just don't know when you stop digging (0+ / 0-)

              Do you?

              CampBX has been saying for over a year that "short-selling is right around the corner". It's never going to happen. Ever.

              you say "probably soon", but you have no clue, you dont know when, because you dont know the technical aspects behind it. Unlike you, I've actually investigated this and understand how the markets work and the complications behind a derivatives-style trading platform for bitcoin. People with integrity can usually admit when they're wrong, but you try to figure out ways to avoid admitting yourself....

              You should really just not discuss a topic you clearly are not knowledgeable on. It seems like this whole time you've been just googling and trying to figure out what's going on and making yourself look like a fool in the process, to be frank.

              I was being specific in pointing out that you were spreading lies about me, by saying that your claim that i was "inconveniently leaving out facts" when, in reality, you just didn't know what you were talking about. It's important people know the truth, and when you lie, people should know that you lied about me.

              So no, you can't short-sell bitcoins, no it won't be available soon, no, not even probably.

              Deficits don't matter, jobs do.

              by aguadito on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 05:13:47 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So why do you hate bit coin so much? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DeadHead

                You really haven't answered what this crusade against bit coin is about. Does it have to do with your conspiracy theories about Assange? Or are you worried the Austrians are going to take over? I don't get why you're so against it given you won't say why.

                So no, you can't short-sell bitcoins, no it won't be available soon, no, not even probably.
                Okay, so neither of us has any idea when you'll be able to short sell it. And yet you swear that it will never happen.

                And no, I'm not a economics expert, but you're working with only a tiny bit of information about the bit coin market and making a pretty big jump from a price table and some assumptions.

                If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                by AoT on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 05:22:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  As we speak (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  fabucat

                  The market has been correcting down. It touched $100 earlier and it's already trading down around below $90 now:

                  http://bitcoincharts.com/

                  Actually, I do know when people will be able to short sell it: never. Like I said. You may not know, but I do. I have researched this market, you haven't. And I am not a speculator, I am an econ guy, and when I see something outrageous like this, I am inspired to write about it.

                  Maybe you need to re-read my diary if you still don't grasp why I've determined how this market is a bubble/scam.

                  I don't have "conspiracy theories" about Assange. His entire adult life is a conspiracy theory. He lives in the god damn Ecuadoran embassy in London ffs.

                  Now you're being petty and insulting. So don't bother replying anymore please, you're not a serious individual.

                  Deficits don't matter, jobs do.

                  by aguadito on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 05:27:21 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  *I'm* being petty and insulting (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    DeadHead

                    You're the one who left a comment denouncing me.

                    I'll ask again, what makes you so opposed to bit coin. You really don't want to answer that question do you? Why the crusade? You personally attack me when I question what you're saying and accuse me of having a "vested interest" which is a giant lie. I should have just HRed you and left, because calling people shills is against the rules.

                    And again, I never said that the diary was wrong or that there wasn't a bubble, I was throwing out alternate possibilities and you got personally insulted.

                    you're not a serious individual.

                    Says the person who lied about me being a shill.

                    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                    by AoT on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 05:32:42 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Hah! (0+ / 0-)

                      I caught you making multiple posts in this thread pumping bitcoin, lying about the ability to short bitcoin, and suggesting bitcoin would be going up because of demand from Europe (without any facts).

                      I looked into your profile to see you were associated with Occupy and other organizations that are heavy bitcoin supporters.

                      I drew the line between the two points.

                      You took it upon yourself to provide false information to individuals in this thread regarding the short-saleability of bitcoin and its potential and the metrics of its valuation.

                      Seeing as this is my diary, I was initially being kind by simply pointing out this conflict of interest so that people could see your bad information about short-selling as probably connected to this, and in response you bit my head off (instead of apologizing and admitting you were wrong about short-selling).

                      You've successfully stuffed up the entire comments thread of this diary entry now, which makes it that much harder for people who took the time to read the entry and who actually have experience with and understand the market to discuss this topic.

                      Deficits don't matter, jobs do.

                      by aguadito on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 05:46:58 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You're the one in attack mode (0+ / 0-)

                        Trying to shut down any conversation that doesn't agree with your view. Kinda like when you attempted, right off the bat, to somehow discredit AoT with the "associated with OWS" bullshit.

                        Post a diary, expect some dissent. It takes two to "stuff up the entire comments thread." You are the other half.




                        Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
                        ~ Jerry Garcia

                        by DeadHead on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 06:37:17 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Dissent is fine (0+ / 0-)

                          But lying is not.

                          And I was in attack mode because of the combination of lies, repetition, and the connections I saw (Wiki+OWS) with the person (AoT) responsible for those things.

                          I'm open for dissent, but not if it's about "hey short-selling is possible" or multiple shaky (false reference to higher European demand, "given there's a limited number, it should go up against the dollar") talking points for bitcoin going up.

                          Perhaps AoT is being good-natured, but it wasn't coming off that way at the time, because he was making claims I knew to be untrue about shortselling in the market particularly.

                          Deficits don't matter, jobs do.

                          by aguadito on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 06:50:07 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  In other words (0+ / 0-)
                            I'm open for dissent, but not if it's about "hey short-selling is possible" or multiple shaky (false reference to higher European demand, "given there's a limited number, it should go up against the dollar") talking points for bitcoin going up.
                            You're not open for dissent if it runs counter to the narrative of your "I'm not sure, but I want to go on the record now just in case" diary.

                            Because you have some insider knowledge that makes your scenario the only possible outcome. Yet you're still not sure, and want to go on the record, just in case, so you'll be able to say "I was right! I was right!" And your dairy couldn't likewise be seen as a set of "talking points."

                            Got it.




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
                            ~ Jerry Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 07:09:37 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Uh, yea (0+ / 0-)

                            What did you think this was, a paid investor newsletter? Get over yourself, it's a diary entry.

                            Go read some other diaries and harass them for using speculation to go on the record in 1% of a diary posted.

                            I'm sure you'd be surprised to see how your standards are quite special just for me.

                            Try actually reading the diary, instead of only joining the comments thread to "back up" your buddy.  Hey, if you actually read, you might even learn something.

                            Deficits don't matter, jobs do.

                            by aguadito on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 12:58:00 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I was wrong about short selling (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            DeadHead

                            Not lying. And you never actually addressed the main issue I brought up with anything except a blanket dismissal of the entire possibility that people in Europe could be buying bit coins. You just said it wasn't true. I'm sorry for being an asshole after that but I tend to get angry when people lie about me being a shill.

                            I brought up my points in the hope that you'd address them and instead you decided I was your enemy and part of some conspiracy. Neither of those things is true.

                            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                            by AoT on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 07:24:16 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  And yes, you have a conspiracy theory (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    DeadHead

                    about Assange, it's right there in the diary, the one that I did in fact read.

                    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                    by AoT on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 05:33:33 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm another non-serious individual (0+ / 0-)

                    who would like to inform you that, in this subthread, you're the one being a dick.

                    And no, I'm not calling you names, I'm describing your behavior.




                    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
                    ~ Jerry Garcia

                    by DeadHead on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 06:04:16 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Oh and by the way (0+ / 0-)

          I've written over a dozen similar diaries where I take time to analyze and go into details of issues.

          So keep questioning my motives when I've done nothing but produce honest analysis in my diaries, and that by producing this information on Bitcoin I can't benefit because there are NO bitcoin trading systems that allow you to short-sell the value, or use put options, or anything that benefit from a downfall in the price.

          Deficits don't matter, jobs do.

          by aguadito on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 04:48:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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