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View Diary: "You think gays have rights?" (232 comments)

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  •  If you're going to dismiss any part of it you (15+ / 0-)

    don't like as "it's a living document" then why think about what the words say at all? Why not just live your life according to your own beliefs and stop searching for them in words written in a bunch of different slave-owning misogynistic societies thousands of years ago? The people who wrote the Bible did the best with what they had, but let's be real about what they had and where they were coming from.

    •  Tradition and Radicalism (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      raincrow, Dirtandiron, Ahianne, deminva

      Because the text grounded the faith of your father and mother and their fathers and mothers, for centuries if not millennia.   Because the text still offers a radical vision for a just society.  And because much of society still embraces the text, you cannot successfully preach a radically just society without use of it.

      Just to name a few.  

      The text has,of course, also been used to promulgate horrible injustice.  And that too can be cause to reject the text.

      But the metaphysical and legal scribblings of bronze age people are in fact holy.  Holy in a very literal sense in that they are set apart and exist in a pure way.   You can accept it or reject it, use it for good or evil, but ignore it at your peril.

      •  I'll grant you that there are some impressive (6+ / 0-)

        ideas about building a good society in the Bible, particularly the New Testament, but a lot of your comment really doesn't make much sense to someone without religious faith, I'm afraid. The concepts of good and evil and purity and holiness just don't chime with me, and nothing relying on them will convince me of anything.

        And, by the way, my parents don't ground their faith in it either. They put up Christmas trees about of habit, and that's about it.

    •  I would suggest that Jesus' parables (6+ / 0-)

      explicitly demonstrate not just the importance but outright requirement of interpretation in attempting to make sense of them.  As parables, they are metaphors, which are always subject to the reader's (or hearer's) subjective experience.  

      As a Christian, I believe that Jesus expects me to try to understand his teachings in light of my subjective experience.  In this way, his teachings are very much living documents.  

      The next time a conservative Christian says the Bible shouldn't be interpreted, say, So, you believe that, when Jesus said 'I am the alpha and the omega,' he was telling people he was the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet?!

      A 47% return on investment--that's pretty doggoned good!

      by deminva on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 05:41:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do you ask them when they learned Hebrew (6+ / 0-)

        and Greek?  If it is in English, it has been interpreted.

        “The future depends entirely on what each of us does every day.” Gloria Steinem

        by ahumbleopinion on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 07:08:09 PM PDT

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        •  not according to the Official Party Line: (0+ / 0-)

          even TRANSLATIONS - and the translation process itself - are rendered INERRANT, which means they CANNOT BE wrong.

          By the same sort of multiple dishonesties that allow Christianists to believe that  - oh, sod it.  It dishonors the thought process and the thinking brain itself to joust with these people as if their most transparent bullshit was somehow reasonable, laudable instead of the toxic corrosion it's proven itself to be WITHOUT FAIL FOR 2000 YEARS.

          At this point, Christian theology is the VERY DEFINITION of sophistry - of evasive bullshit for its own sake.  Talking with them about it is the stupidest and least-productive thing we could possible do...except maybe, talking amongt ourselves over which parts of the manufactured Christian superstructure might 'feel differently'....

          I am a leaf on the wind - i hover, twirl, float,
          Weightless, frictionless, I fly

          by chmood on Sat Mar 30, 2013 at 05:08:48 AM PDT

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          •  I am continually amazed (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            at how defiantly non-Christian commentators make such statements with assurance.  What in the world does the "Official Party Line" mean for Christianity?

            I've never heard of it, although I'm married to an Episcopal rector who also has a PhD in religious and medical ethics.  She has studied Greek and Hebrew (as well as Spanish, Russian, and Chinese) and Jewish religious ethics (and with it the Talmudic tradition).  Her dissertation focused on narrative ethics, so she's also highly attuned to text, author, audience, and the dynamics of power among them.  So, no, she doesn't believe any claptrap about inerrant translations.  

            If I as a Christian made a claim about what all scientists believe -- or all biologists, or all archaeologists, or all of any subspecialty no matter how small, I suspect you'd laugh me off the thread for daring to generalize so superficially about a rich, complex, contradictory set of individuals.

            Hell, take a look just at the two most recent popes, then tell me how all Christians interpret their faith the same way!

            A 47% return on investment--that's pretty doggoned good!

            by deminva on Sat Mar 30, 2013 at 06:23:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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