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View Diary: Reaping What You Sow: Are White Supremacists Preparing to Fight a new Civil War? (276 comments)

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  •  Self-defense is legitimate (9+ / 0-)

    Thing is, the people we're up against have gotten a bit smarter and more sophisticated since the era depicted in Matewan. Today they own politicians, think tanks and the media, have armies of lawyers, and have developed a far "softer" image than in the past. They don't have to shoot strikers anymore. They just fire them and replace them with out of work non-union workers desperate for income, or shut down the store or plant and move it elsewhere. Or they bribe them with small settlements provided they sign a document saying they won't sue, if there's some sort of industrial accident or mishap.

    Consciously or not, today's authoritarians have learned from the past and have gotten much better at it. They'll shoot to kill if they have to, but they rarely do (in the US against non-poor non-minorities, at least). And when they do, our having guns won't be of much help. You really think law enforcement will side with the people? You think if Martin had a gun to protect himself against Zimmerman, the police would have sided with him?

    Any way you look at it, guns are not what keep us free and safe from power. Our minds, our hearts, our energy, our determination, are what do that.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 06:28:26 PM PDT

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    •  Well said. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kovie, Losty

      And again, since in my ideal world, the only guns people could own are more like existed in 1776, there is a lot of gun control that is needed to be sure. But I am not holding my breath. Bless you for your good sense and great comment.

      My avatar image is a photograph I took in 2008 of the headwaters of a waterfall in the imperiled Parque Nacional de Garajonay, a UNESCO World Heritage Site on La Gomera, birthplace of my grandfather, in the Canary Islands not far from the Sahara Desert.

      by Galtisalie on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 06:37:24 PM PDT

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      •  Eh, I'm ok with people owning (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Galtisalie, Old Lefty, AoT, JVolvo

        more modern guns. I'm seriously not a gun hater. I mean, most gun owners back then owned single shot musket-loading smoothbore rifles back then, and we've come a ways since then with rifling (which existed back then but was expensive and much harder to load and clean), cartridges, breech loading (broadly speaking), repeaters, etc. And these all serve a legitimate purpose for the various uses to which modern guns are put by civilians.

        But the line has to be drawn somewhere, in my and many others' (including many gun owners) view, at the point where a given type of gun's inherent danger to others if misused outweighs whatever use it might offer a relative small group of people. E.g. an assault rifle, or more precisely any rapid-fire semi-automatic gun equipped with more than 8-10 rounds per clip. I'm sure that there are SOME good uses for these out there (apparently farmers and ranchers use them to kill vermin), but not enough to justify the danger they pose in the wrong hands IMO. And they WILL get into the wrong hands.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 06:45:30 PM PDT

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    •  They don't shoot strikers because (9+ / 0-)

      No one strikes when they aren't suppose to and because unions are already broken. If the working class starts winning again things will change.

      If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

      by AoT on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 07:14:16 PM PDT

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