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View Diary: State religion? North Carolina GOP is there (141 comments)

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  •  You cannot overturn the Civil War by house vote (19+ / 0-)

    This is a key issue here; what they are arguing is that the sovereignty of a state supersedes all federal mandates.   We decided this, once upon a time in the US Civil War.

    The concept of putting up the conclusion of that war to a vote is laughable.

    Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

    by Chris Reeves on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 08:58:17 AM PDT

    •  Someone over at Balloon Juice said it best... (14+ / 0-)

      the courthouse they SHOULD be thinking of is Appomatox.

      The last time the Republicans were this radical, they were working to elect former slaves to Congress. What a difference a century and a half makes!

      by jayjaybear on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 09:06:55 AM PDT

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      •  hah hah hah hah (11+ / 0-)

        That's really clever... and true!

        How did we get Reconstruction so wrong?  A century between the Civil War and the Civil Rights Act... and we're still fighting this bullshit!

        I feel like there should have been some reckoning in 1865-1880, some public acknowledgement of the harm done by the Confederates once the war was over... the South should have had to confront their actions the same way the Germans had to confront theirs after WWII.  Germany ended up healing more quickly and became a much better society for having to come face to face with the reality of what they had done.  They needed to know that they were not the victims, although many suffered intensely.  

        This is the difference between the firebombing of Dresden and Sherman's march to the sea.  The Germans realized that Dresden was a war crime, but could put it in its proper place given the magnitude of the crimes of the Nazi regime.  The South only saw the burning of Georgia as a crime, without any perspective on the much greater crimes that set that one event in motion.

        In the South, the mythologizing about the lost cause began at once.  The population was never forced to confront and understand the horror of slavery, nor their culpability for the deaths of half a million in the war. The war came; it ended, and the myths and lies and belief in victimization continued.  And so we still see this bullshit in North Carolina.

        “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

        by ivorybill on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 09:51:37 AM PDT

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        •  "The past is never dead." (4+ / 0-)

          "It's not even past."

          -- William Faulkner

          North Carolina GOP seems guided by Faulkner's observation.

          Most models are wrong, but some are useful.

          by etbnc on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 10:55:09 AM PDT

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        •  Thank you for acknowledging that: (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ivorybill
          The Germans realized that Dresden was a war crime, but could put it in its proper place given the magnitude of the crimes of the Nazi regime.
          A former colleague claimed that rebuilding Dresden was an insult to the Nazi victims.

          261.A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience. -Ferengi Rules of Acquisition

          by MaikeH on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 11:29:46 AM PDT

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          •  Firebombing cities is a war crime (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MaikeH, Ahianne

            and that goes for Hiroshima also. There are other factors to consider, which is why neither event carries as much historical prominance as the Japanese occupation of China or the holocaust.  But we should have our eyes wide open and be able to admit war crimes, even those conducted on our own behalf. Kurt Vonnegut realized that bombing Dresden was a war crime - it changed the course of his life, and though he approached it with a sort of dark humor, there's no doubt at all that killing all those civilians in that way was a criminal act. We won, so we had the luxury of forgetting.  The Germans lost (and committed much greater crimes) so they were unable to forget.  Better not to forget - otherwise, we are too prone to the belief that the US by definition can do no wrong, or that the US gets to unilaterally set the definintions of war crimes according to circumstances.

            “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

            by ivorybill on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 11:48:08 AM PDT

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    •  They're thinking (4+ / 0-)

      Articles of Confederation. Which worked so well (not) that we had a constitutional convention that got us the document they're trying to legislate out of existence.

      They seem to have stopped teaching US history in NC at least 30 years ago.

      (Is it time for the pitchforks and torches yet?)

      by PJEvans on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 09:10:14 AM PDT

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      •  They still teach it; there are educated ... (0+ / 0-)

        progressive natives, and of course the few nut jobs who shout the loudest manage to drown out the voices of reason.

      •  umm.... "they're thinking ... " (0+ / 0-)

        While I get your point ...

        I'm pretty sure "thinking" is not much involved in this stuff, not the way I think about "thinking", at any rate. Neurons may be firing, but I hesitate to call the result "thinking.

        Most models are wrong, but some are useful.

        by etbnc on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 10:58:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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