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View Diary: Pat Robertson explains why people in Africa can raise the dead (158 comments)

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  •  You sound like the right-wingers (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aitchdee

    claiming persecution when people call them bigots.

    "Only fools believe such utter nonsense" isn't a brave iconoclastic challenge; it's a petty insult.  You insult people, you're gonna get called on it.

    You criticize the people enacting harmful policies based on their beliefs all you want, and I'm in your corner on that one, I've got your back a hundred percent.  You step up and proclaim that religion has no place in law and needs to back the hell off, and I'll be seconding you every step of the way.

    You tell people that they're idiots for being religious, you're a jerk.

    •  That's fine (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      devis1

      I don't mind being challenged. And atheists are most certainly a persecuted group. I'm having to think about whether or not I want to fight to get the Ten Commandments removed from the local courthouse. The thing that is holding me back are the death threats and the persecution that will most certainly come with such an action.
      And I fully understand that people don't like being called fools. Instead of complaining about people calling them fools, maybe they ought to consider ending belief in foolish things. Imaginary sky fairies belong at the top of that list.

      +++ The law is a weapon used to bludgeon us peasants into submission. It is not to be applied to the monied elite.

      by cybersaur on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 07:17:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Being persecuted doesn't make you right, you know. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aitchdee

        Factually or morally.

        Speaking of foolish things to believe.  A belief you share with a whole big lot of right-wing religionists, I might add.

        •  I never suggested as much (0+ / 0-)

          Being persecuted has no direct connection with the veracity of any given claim and I never suggested anything of the sort.
          What makes one "right" is holding beliefs that match up with reality. I'd say that separates me from a whole big lot of right-wing religionists.
          I can defend my beliefs because they're based on facts, evidence and the world I observe around me. Religion is based on none of that.
          Religious people believe what they do primarily because that is the culture they are brought up in. Most people cannot even name the major world religions. How they can claim to know the one true god is beyond me.

          +++ The law is a weapon used to bludgeon us peasants into submission. It is not to be applied to the monied elite.

          by cybersaur on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:17:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm sure you can defend your beliefs (0+ / 0-)

            but that doesn't excuse your behavior.

            I'm not trying to persuade you that any religion has the right of it.  I'm trying to point out that calling large groups of people stupid is a jerk move even if it's true.

            There's a big difference between saying "this statement you have made is not supported by fact," or even saying "this statement you have made is provably false," and saying "you are an idiot."

            •  Sure (0+ / 0-)

              I'm not going to disagree with you that the way I've stated things leaves a lot to be desired. Any challenge to religious belief is often considered an attack and impolite to those that hold those beliefs. Religionists always want to burn the heretic, but are generally incapable of rationally addressing the claims of the heretic. An expected reaction when the challenged belief system is wholly indefensible.

              +++ The law is a weapon used to bludgeon us peasants into submission. It is not to be applied to the monied elite.

              by cybersaur on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 09:41:25 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm going to say this one more time: (0+ / 0-)

                Talking about how religious people react to challenges to their beliefs is completely irrelevant here.  "You're all stupid" is not a rational challenge to anyone's beliefs.  It's a schoolyard insult.

                I can appreciate how frustration with intransigent fundamentalists can make one want to resort to insults; if everybody reacts to your every rational comment with something like OMG UR BEIN MEAN STOP ATTACKIN MEEE, there isn't much benefit in staying rational instead of going on the direct attack.  And when you're talking to somebody else instead of those flailing fundamentalists, it's even more tempting to just vent about how stupid you think they are.

                Here's what you need to remember: when you talk here at DK about Christians in particular or religious people in general, you are not talking about some nebulous not-here Them.  You are talking about some of your fellow progressives who are reading this, and I guarantee none of us want to burn you.

                •  Yes, religious belief is pervasive (0+ / 0-)

                  What is a better term for people that believe in magic?
                  Born of a virgin = magic!
                  Rising from the dead = magic!
                  Sin = magic!
                  An eternal god = magic!
                  Turning water into wine = magic!
                  Parting the Red Sea = magic!
                  Creating the Earth in six days = magic!
                  Souls = magic! (ghosts?)
                  The Tower of Babel = magic!
                  Talking serpent = magic!

                  People that believe magic is real = ?

                  +++ The law is a weapon used to bludgeon us peasants into submission. It is not to be applied to the monied elite.

                  by cybersaur on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 10:38:30 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  ... nope, still not interested in burning you (0+ / 0-)

                    although I am developing an unaccountable urge to knock briskly on your head to get your attention.

                    People that believe in any or all of those things = PEOPLE.  You do not actually need to call them anything.

                    .

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