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View Diary: Abbreviated Pundit Round-up: CT gun laws and other tales of change (224 comments)

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  •  Fortunately, we'll never have to find out. (0+ / 0-)

    Except for those unfortunate enough to live in restrictive states.

    When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

    by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 06:36:12 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Your assumption that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Beetwasher, Glen The Plumber

      people in restrictive states will suffer because not everyone can carry a gun to the grocery store fails on several levels.
      The states with the least restrictive gun laws have the most gun violence.

      The data analyzed in this report relate to the following 10 indicators of gun violence:
       1.Overall firearm deaths in 2010
       2.Overall firearm deaths from 2001 through 2010
       3.Firearm homicides in 2010
       4.Firearm suicides in 2010
       5.Firearm homicides among women from 2001 through 2010
       6.Firearm deaths among children ages 0 to 17, from 2001 through 2010
       7.Law-enforcement agents feloniously killed with a firearm from 2002 through 2011
       8.Aggravated assaults with a firearm in 2011
       9.Crime-gun export rates in 2009
       10.Percentage of crime guns with a short “time to crime” in 2009
      http://www.americanprogress.org/...

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:15:55 AM PDT

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      •  That's not true. (0+ / 0-)

        California had 400 more gun murders than Texas in 2010.  Connecticut had three times as many as West Virginia and almost 50 times as many as Vermont.

        When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

        by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:18:37 AM PDT

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        •  Meaningless twaddle (6+ / 0-)

          This report goes far beyond murders and actually compares statistics (for example, the population in W Va is much lower than Connecticut but still has a higher murder by firearm rate than CT).

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:37:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And? (0+ / 0-)

            What does the rate matter?  A life is a life, and CT lost three times as many as WV to gun violence.

            When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

            by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:49:12 AM PDT

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            •  Holy moly (4+ / 1-)

              You really are a stupid man.  Even though that was my impression, you just kept commenting long enough to prove it.  So thanks much for that.

              Your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore. John Prine -8.00,-5.79

              by Miss Blue on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:51:52 AM PDT

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              •  Sticks and stones. (0+ / 0-)

                But seriously, what does the rate matter?  You can't use it to calculate risk.

                When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:56:03 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Risks ARE rates (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Glen The Plumber, Miss Blue

                  City A has 1,000 people who die of disease X.
                  City B has 2,000 people who die of disease X.

                  You can say that City B has twice as many deaths, but that's not the same thing at all as saying that "People in City B have a greater risk of dying from disease X."

                  We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

                  by Samer on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 08:45:20 AM PDT

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                  •  How does this connect to gun violence? (0+ / 0-)

                    Gun violence isn't pathology; it doesn't strike randomly.  It is the sum of willful, criminal acts.  

                    When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                    by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 08:48:55 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Since you need the dots connected . . . (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Glen The Plumber, skohayes, Miss Blue

                      Risk is probability applied to undesirable outcomes. It's a simple mathematical formula that doesn't care about etiology or volition.

                      City A has 50 people die from guns.
                      City B has 100 people die from guns.

                      City B, clearly, has twice as many people die from guns.

                      But that is not the same thing as saying "People in City B have twice the risk of dying from guns."

                      For example, if City B has ten times as many people as City A, then, proportionally, the risk of someone in City B dying as the result of a gun is five times lower. If City A has ten times as many people as City B, then the risk of gun death in City B is twenty times higher.

                      We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

                      by Samer on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 09:06:12 AM PDT

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                      •  Correct definition of risk (0+ / 0-)

                        Wrong application, though.  Mortality rates apply to similar events involving similarly situated actors.   It does not make sense, for example, to divide the number of HIV-related deaths by total population in a given year; you divide by the number of HIV victims to determine the mortality rate due to said infection.

                        When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                        by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 09:25:44 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You're changing the goalposts (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Glen The Plumber, skohayes, Miss Blue

                          I'm not talking about mortality rate, which has a very specific definition, and is irrelevant to the point at hand.

                          So please explain to me why you can't draw the conclusion that based on the following data, it is unreasonable to conclude "A person (i.e., a randomly-selected individual) in Wyoming is more likely to die as the result of a gun than a person in Connecticut."

                          CT: 1,755 gun deaths from 2001 to 2010, 5.0 deaths/100,000 people/year
                          WY: 818 gun deaths, 15.6 deaths/100,000 people/year

                          We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

                          by Samer on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 10:19:35 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

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