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View Diary: THREE times as many Science degrees as there are Science jobs! (298 comments)

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  •  well there IS a shortage of science teachers (23+ / 0-)

    but i wouldn't recommend the field to my worst enemy. My wife has been out of work for over a year ( MS  Biotech ) and got downsized with the flight of pharma out of NJ. She aske abut teaching and as a 25 yr public school veteran I told her flat out she would hate it.Want a former gym teacher dressed in a poorly fitting suit to evaluate you? That's what you get in education.

    •  Why is the suit important? n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ban nock
    •  I'd think all types of teaching would be equaly (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      IT Professional, Nulwee

      suited to administration or evaluation. I evaluate teachers all the time as a parent. Not formally, not so it matters, except with other parents, we all know which teachers classes we want our kids to go to.

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 06:29:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, not really. (0+ / 0-)

        A good administrator should have been a scholar at some point, and while i have nothing personally against gym teachers ( I wouldn't mind at all if we ditched them all tomorrow; and in fact NJ tried to back in 1989 ) I doubt any of them were scholars, of anything remotely intellectually challenging. My theory has always been that teachers should have a masters degree and have the credentials upon finishing to both teach and administrate; admin should not be a separate profession with separate training, as it is now. But we are going in a separate direction in this country, moving toward less credentials and less education for teachers, in bold defiance of what works in other countries, because it will be cheaper.

    •  YOu know (3+ / 0-)

      I think this is an incredibly unfair characterization of teaching in public schools.  

      Public schools are no different than any other endeavor. The difference is that the things that happen in public schools are open to view by the ---public.  

      Imagine you have a business that has multiple locations in every neighborhood in the country.  Now imagine that many of the people in those locations spend many years interacting directly with that business.  Now imagine that those businesses are the focus of regular scrutiny from public watchdog groups, and that they must ask the people around them to determine whether or not they are going to pay them for the work they do.  

      NOw imagine that you have a secondary market that sees a very great benefit in snapping up those customers. Now imagine that those who wish to snap up those customers also use dispicable tactics and lies in attempts to get those customers.  The schools, however, are not operating in the same way.  They are not using the latest advertising techniques to push their product.  It's an unfair and asymmetrical battle, and unfortunately, the propaganda that began with Reagan has found a hold amongst even the most ardent supporters of public schools.  


      by otto on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 06:44:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  WHy does it seem that (6+ / 0-)

      many school administrators are former gym teachers?  May not be true but I've seen a surprising number.  Yet I know a highly skilled and well respected school guidance counselor with a certification for administration that can't break into that area.  Why - no classroom teaching experience.  

      "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

      by newfie on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 07:10:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I actually don't know any n/t (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IT Professional, newfie

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 07:43:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ok - so that balances out (0+ / 0-)

          Not saying the ones I know aren't fit to be administrators because for the most part they are.  Just struck me as unusual.  

          "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

          by newfie on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 11:06:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  really? come to NJ (0+ / 0-)

          while it is becoming less so, originally gym teachers filled a lot of the ranks because they were male, and had plenty of time to take classes as they weren't correcting a lot of homework or doing as much lesson planning. A lot of them were also coaches and alas, people in town like their coaches and see them as good disciplinarians. But it is somewhat insulting that they can sit in a physics class and evaluate whether a teacher is getting through when they have no idea what said teacher is talking about. When I started 27 years ago almost all the principals i worked with had been gym teachers. One used to actually bait new hires by complaining vociferously about all the former gym teachers running the shit, then when they agreed would take perverse pleasure in revealing he was a former gym teacher.

      •  Yes, totally (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IT Professional, newfie, raboof

        Me and my friends noticed that about my high school. The principal and vice principal were ex-gym teachers and they always seemed clueless. My parents were sort of shocked when they listened to some of the things they were saying at the graduation ceremony, and my english teacher would make comments that hinted at what they had to deal with at staff meetings. The other thing they did was to name the school library and the gym after themselves when they finally retired.

        This was my principal - he got in the news for harrassing a woman. He was mostly bald, and then one day he started wearing a full toupee - even though he works at a school:

      •  Why principals were all former gym teachers (4+ / 0-)

        When I was in high school, many years ago, the path to vice principal and principal jobs was being a dean (usually dean of boys, since in those days administrators were virtually all males.) And deans were chosen from the ranks of gym teachers, because it was thought (by the former gym teachers who ran the place) that they were the only ones who could deal with problem kids. Self-perpetuating system, privileging a conformist, macho and aggressive approach to discipline and then privileging discipline as the highest role of administration.

        Among my many trips to the vice principal's office for disciplinary purposes (I was viewed as too problematic for the deans to deal with), one of my faves led to this exchange:
        VP: "Your whole problem is that you just haven't learned to conform in your thinking!" [yes, he was serious.]
        Me: "That's great! Will you put that in my college recommendations?"

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