Skip to main content

View Diary: THREE times as many Science degrees as there are Science jobs! (298 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Are you sure they're immigrants? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ignacio Magaloni, Dianna

    I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

    by Satya1 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 07:51:16 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Most are (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Geenius at Wrok, Keith930, Alumbrados

      There'll be a few who aren't, those are the ones in charge. You really can't run a construction business without having a spanish speaking foreman. Not that I have any faith in the sturdiness of any new buildings. Built by the lowest bidder, with wiring and plumbing put in by people who aren't electricians and plumbers.

      First they came for the farm workers, and I said nothing.

      by Hannibal on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 08:20:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yikes (0+ / 0-)
        with wiring and plumbing put in by people who aren't electricians and plumbers
        It's pretty scary that construction companies can get away with that.

        I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

        by Satya1 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 09:14:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Wow. So a Chicano or other Latino citizen will be (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Loge, Dianna

        the foreman, and the rest undocumented workers. And, yes, I assume you are not talking about caucasian foremen who know a little Spanish--though there a plenty out there.

        Bull: many of those workers under the foreman will be citizens as well.
          I know, especially before the current economic crash, the lowest bidders were often using exploited labor, taking advantage of their undocumented status, but the regional variations are quite significant--and the workers will still be speaking Spanish!
         I think Satya1 was asking the right question: you are not likely to be sure they are immigrants, especially if you are like some of the people that only assume their "foreman" is the only Spanish-speaker that is a citizen--where I live. But with ten million undocumented workers in the country, most of them Spanish-speaking, one can also expect that such work crews will still be exploited today.
         So you may be right with your experience of construction, Hannibal, but don't buy into the overgeneralization of Spanish speakers=non-citizens, which Keith930 kicked off, and that you are not questioning sufficiently. And if you have not lunched and talked sufficiently with the work crews--do it. You'll see what I am talking about, especially in Texas, California and Florida.
        That's the thing about blogs: sometimes it's hard to communicate without overgeneralizing. But what Keith930 did above is unacceptable, especially nowadays.

        The labor of a human being is not a commodity or article of commerce. Clayton Act, Section 6.

        by Ignacio Magaloni on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 11:59:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Can't agree. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Alumbrados

          I don't think what Keith930 did was unacceptable.  If I see a collection of construction workers, and I hear them consistently speaking Spanish, it's pretty reasonable to assume they're immigrants.  It would be a pretty remarkable coincidence otherwise.  Citizens tend to have a pretty good grasp of English - like yourself.

          And it is pretty remarkable that Spanish-speaking Hispanics seem to dominate the workforce in the building trades.  It certainly looks as if everyone else has been priced out of the market.

          The road to Hell is paved with pragmatism.

          by TheOrchid on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 01:11:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, I am here to inform you that you are wrong (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dianna

            about this. While there are many multigenerational citizen Latinos that do not speak Spanish--though the often understand it when spoken--there are an awful lot of Mexican-Americans and other Latinos that do indeed speak Spanish at their workplace, especially in trades like construction where Spanish-only speakers do concentrate in numbers.

            Yo se: yo hablo con ellos--migrantes y ciudadanos--en lugares de mucha historia (como en ciudades dentro del cuadro "top ten," como San Antonio y Houston) donde trabajan juntos, y que hablan con gente que no habla ingles sin pensar ni por un segundo que al mismo tiempo no sean tambien hijos del Tio Sam: lo que dices simplemente ignora la realidad.

            On battlefields, we probably died and won our Congressional Medals of honor with words in Spanish dedicated to our loved ones.

            And I say this as your compatriot.

            The labor of a human being is not a commodity or article of commerce. Clayton Act, Section 6.

            by Ignacio Magaloni on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 08:29:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  That's a fallacy of the inverse. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            nchristine
            If I see a collection of construction workers, and I hear them consistently speaking Spanish, it's pretty reasonable to assume they're immigrants.
            Lots of Americans speak only English, and lots of immigrants speak some other language as their primary language; but there are far more citizens here than immigrants, so if you see someone speaking another language, that does not imply that person is an immigrant.

            My mother grew up in a german-speaking ethnic enclave of Chicago in the 40s and 50s.  The kids spoke German at home, and spoke English with a German accent, even though they were Chicago natives.  The adults spoke German to each other, and even their local newspaper, the Abendpost, was in German.  If you saw a bunch of them working on a car, would you assume they were foreigners?

            Now I live in Binghamton, NY.   I just took my kid to the park, and there were kids speaking Chinese and Russian.  I was speaking to my kid in Portuguese.  It never occurred to me to assume that any of these kids were immigrants.

            At the university where I work, we are warned that a substantial number of incoming students come from households where English is not the first language spoken, and many of them gravitate into ethnic enclaves and speak to one another in non-English languages.  

            America has always pretty much always been like this.

            Taking jokes seriously is the exact mirror activity of laughing if someone says they have cancer. --jbou

            by Caj on Sat Apr 06, 2013 at 10:02:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site