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View Diary: The Ongoing War on Christianity (172 comments)

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  •  "Not all of Christianity is bad" (2+ / 0-)
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    Deward Hastings, Roadbed Guy

    But it is.

    The foundational principle of all Christian faith is substitutionary atonement: the idea that someone else can pay for your sins. The second principle is the doctrine of original sin: that you inherit sins worth dying for, merely by being born.

    These two principles alone are so horrifyingly immoral as to render any further discussion moot.

    •  Matter of perspective regarding what is immoral (0+ / 0-)

      Read St. Augustine for original sin, which not every Christian group adheres to.  

      As for substitutionary atonement, again, it depends on the theology.  Some traditions (like Catholicism) argue that you have to earn the grace to achieve salvation--it just doesn't come through belief alone (which many protestant traditions argue).  

      However, I would say that before you label an entire faith tradition as "horrifyingly immoral," you should ask how immoral it is to make that statement in the first place...

      To be free and just depends on us. Victor Hugo.

      by dizzydean on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 05:42:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Are not some things horrifyingly immoral? (0+ / 0-)

        You seem to be implying that categorizing a belief system as horrifyingly immoral is, itself, immoral. This leads to the bizarre conclusion that those who condemn the Nazis are themselves as bad as Nazis. In philosophy this is called reductio ad absurdum; in layman's terms it means your argument is broken.

        I do realize that the specific terms are not necessarily used by all Christian faiths, and that there is much argument over exactly what they mean. However, the simple fact remains that the Christian story is salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus, and that man needs salvation.

        These are immoral principles: they violate the entire concept of moral responsibility. If others can pay for your wrongs, then what does it mean to be responsible? If you are guilty of other's wrongs, then what does it mean to be responsible? And what kind of morality is devoid of personal responsibility?

        •  Since you'e gone Godwin I'll just respond (0+ / 0-)

          that if you don't see the problem--and immorality--of labeling a religious system as "horrifyingly immoral" and ignore the results of such a belief in the 20th century, then you are being foolish at best.

          To be free and just depends on us. Victor Hugo.

          by dizzydean on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 08:26:17 AM PDT

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