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View Diary: Social Security expansion idea gaining steam (103 comments)

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  •  The younger progressives who are (39+ / 0-)

    supporting the Chained CPI are being very myopic. As a person who had to care for elderly parents until their death, I know it is a very difficult task. If SS, Medicare, and Medicaid are diminished, then there are going to be a lot of parents moving in with their adult children.

    Expanding these benefits makes sense on so many levels.

    •  I've yet to hear anyone but an Obama fan (18+ / 0-)

      support chain CPI.  I don't see it as a chasm between younger and older progressives at all.  

    •  Who are these supporters? You have links? (16+ / 0-)

      I ask because I haven't read anyone who I'd call a Progressive that supports Chained-CPI.

      As someone who will be retiring after 2033, I am very much interested in how to ensure that Social Security can fund full benefits when it is my time to receive them.

      According to the Social Security Administration:

      .Your estimated benefits are based on current law. The law governing benefit amounts may change because, by 2033, the payroll taxes collected will be enough to pay only about 75 cents for each dollar of scheduled benefits.
      I would think that anyone left of center would find a 25% upfront benefit cut to be an unacceptable proposition.Social Security needs to be expanded and the expansion paid for preferably from raising the income cap as well as a very gradual increase in the the Social Security payroll tax over x-amount of years.

      Progressives have much more to do than just complain about Chained-CPI as there is something worse, for some of us, on the horizon. My generation already got screwed once in '84 by both parties and taking another hit isn't going to work.

      "There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.".. Buddha

      by sebastianguy99 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 01:41:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Lots of assumptions go into that number (9+ / 0-)

        The most effective fix is to get more people working and get the economy focused on the green, energy efficient jobs of the future. Medicare has much bigger financial problems than Social Security. Medicare's problems could be fixed by keeping people healthier by better management of chronic conditions.

        look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

        by FishOutofWater on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 02:46:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So now the SSA data out to 2033 is skewed? (0+ / 0-)

          I didn't say anything about M/M so I don't know what that has to do with Social Security's ability to pay 100% benefits after 2033.

          It would be just as easy to challenge the assumption that the economy is going to get better and not tank, again. Then what? You cannot assume that the future is going to turn out ok, you have to plan.

          Raise the cap, raise the tax .1 every other year or so as some have suggested, and expand the program.

          In any case, I do not find waiting on the economy to transition to cleaner energy as a sufficient condition for ensuring my benefits are going to be cut...again.

          btw..that transition to cleaner energy isn't going to be easy, quick, or cheap. The country will not be transitioned by 2033, it will just be in some part of the beginning stage.  Fixing Social Security so that people retiring after 2033 will not suffer a mass cut (or workers a massive tax increase) beyond 2033 is far far easier to implement and pay for.

          "There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.".. Buddha

          by sebastianguy99 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 04:58:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The assumptions in that projection are highly (0+ / 0-)

            negative.

            The last big fix was in 1984. The system was close to failure at that point. The low point was $24,539,000 in 1981.[1] Since that time the trust fund has risen to $2.8 trillion. Although the boomers paid the increased tax rate for only about half their working lives, they have prepaid their own retirement with their own contributions.[2] For younger workers today who have been paying that increased tax rate for their entire working life, I see little reason to assume they will not be able to prepay their own retirements as well.

            One of the assumptions is that life expectancy will increase as much in future decades as it has in previous decades. That's unlikely.[3]

            [1] http://ssa.gov/...

            [2] http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/...

            No one is making out like a bandit: Social Security beneficiaries who retired in 2010 are expected to get back approximately what they paid in.
            [3] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/...
            The work of Wilkinson (1996) has provided a stark reality that reminds us that how countries distribute their resources is a stronger predictor of longevity than sheer wealth. While persons in the United States are living longer than ever before, these now lasting negative trends and falling international rankings in life expectancy suggest the real and observable consequences of inequality. For the first time in nearly 20 years, average life expectancies appeared to drop in the United States (Miniño, Xu, and Kochanek, 2010). Though the drop was small and only time will reveal the seriousness of such a drop, it calls attention to the potential for stagnating and even declining life expectancies in future length of life in an age of economic and social uncertainty.

            Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

            by Just Bob on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 11:59:41 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Here's a list of people who think they aren't (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KJG52, divineorder, Mr Robert, Just Bob

        even cuts at all.

        Recommended by:
        wonkydonkey, wtpvideo, pvasileff, fou, WiseFerret, dm92, vulcangrrl, Deep Texan, 88kathy, Onomastic, Catte Nappe, yorkiedoglover, doc2, livjack, Inland, left over flower child, notrouble, PubliusPublicola, JoeLibertarian, Dr Swig Mcjigger, triciawyse, Mnemosyne, marykk, Its the Supreme Court Stupid, Quicklund
        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        Michelle and I send our thoughts to the Thatcher family and all the British people as we carry on the work to which she dedicated her life" President Obama, on the passing of Margaret Thatcher.

        by JesseCW on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 03:44:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Please do not lie Jesse (0+ / 0-)

          What you provided were people who recommend a diary that tried to explain what the author felt were misconceptions.

          In fact, the author states:

          While I personally disagree with the use of the chained CPI (I prefer the CPI-E), I feel it is important to highlight the reality here.
          That does not constitute a statement of support.

          In addition, the HR's for that diary are inappropriate. Nothing in the rules would justify them. Drama, drama, drama.

          "There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.".. Buddha

          by sebastianguy99 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 05:07:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The author lied and claimed that cuts are not (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Brown Thrasher, Just Bob

            cuts.  What I said was "Here's a list of people who think they aren't cuts at all", which is the claim that earned that filthy fucking troll a stack of HR's.

            That's the entire thrust of the diary, and it is a noxious right wing lie.  Those are HR'able here.

            Your up-rate of that debunked right wing talking point is fucking disgusting, and you should frankly be ashamed to defend it.  

            If I was you, I wouldn't want that list posted either.

            Michelle and I send our thoughts to the Thatcher family and all the British people as we carry on the work to which she dedicated her life" President Obama, on the passing of Margaret Thatcher.

            by JesseCW on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 05:27:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  If you have to lie you aren't helping anyone but (0+ / 0-)

              ...your own appetite for flame throwing.

              I asked who supported this thing as the statement was made that some "Progressives" support the revised CPI.

              I asked who they were.

              You come flaming by and threw up a list showing blatant HR abuse from a diary where there author states non support for Chained-CPI in question.

              You are just doing your usually b.s. flaming throwing and not even trying to anything productive.

              I tried to engage you honestly. Shame on me.

              If you have to lie, you are not a Progressive in my opinion. You can hurl all the baseless names your mind can come up with and they still don't build you any credibility.

              Now go flame someone else who doesn't know your b.s.

              "There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.".. Buddha

              by sebastianguy99 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 06:55:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You uprated a lying right wing troll. (0+ / 0-)

                You pulled a diary promoted by Fix The Debt out of hiddens.

                You've picked a side.  Feel free to change it if you ever decide that poor people matter to you.

                Your definition of "productive' is anything that facilitates harming poor and working people.

                Now go cry about how proud you are of claiming that CPI is not a cut to someone else.

                I know what your agenda is, and like the rest of those who uprated that blatantly lying troll,  it's got nothing to do with this party's platform.

                Michelle and I send our thoughts to the Thatcher family and all the British people as we carry on the work to which she dedicated her life" President Obama, on the passing of Margaret Thatcher.

                by JesseCW on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 04:29:22 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  The only supporters of chained CPI are (20+ / 0-)

      Conservadems.  The idea has no merit and neither do those who push it.

      You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

      by Johnny Q on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 01:52:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Tell them the truth... (19+ / 0-)

      You are going to be paying THE SAME amount to SS out of your paycheck, but getting LESS benefits than your grandparents.  It's a tax increase for all working people.

      'Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost' - Ronald Reagan, Communist

      by RichM on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 02:38:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Aaah but where do they go if the adult (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mr Robert, Minnesota Deb, praenomen

      children are living with them..unemployed,   inquiring elders want to know.......?   We and the whole lot wil be up the creek and no paddle....we won't even have a boat.

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 04:18:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Over the last few years I have lost many old (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ChemBob

        friends who have died in their 50's or early 60's. The reason they died so young was that there was no help for them; no medical care, inadequate home life, loneliness, despair...that is one of the reasons I am so angry at Obama. He has enriched the lives of the criminals on Wall Street, but he has ignored the suffering of millions of Americans who didn't cause this crisis (including 17 million children who are going hungry tonight).

        To me, that is his legacy...

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