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View Diary: Yesterday, I felt worthless & humiliated (174 comments)

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  •  Unitarians have told me they can not chastise (5+ / 0-)

    one of their own members for harassing me for not following their theology in my very existence. Because it is in the bible So no, they are not a safe enough place for those of us that have seen what the power of religion can do.

    "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

    by Horace Boothroyd III on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 07:40:10 PM PDT

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    •  As you wish. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Tell me the last time anyone you know was abused by a Unitarian. And tell me what Unitarian theology is -- not even Unitarians are so sure about that.


      by raincrow on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 09:18:44 PM PDT

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      •  I'm sorry, I did not decode your post correctly (1+ / 0-)
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        Are you saying you WERE abused by a Unitarian, and that a Unitarian claimed authority to do so from the Bible?? I guess I live in the big city -- our local UUC church numbers among its congregation atheist Jews, lapsed Catholics, lapsed Hindus, 31 flavors.

        Sorry to not read your post more closely.


        by raincrow on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 09:41:04 PM PDT

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        •  i'm confused by this (3+ / 0-)
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          OleHippieChick, PinHole, raincrow

          in ct, the local Unitarians let the pagans have Sabbats in their church

          fact does not require fiction for balance (proudly a DFH)

          by mollyd on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:31:18 AM PDT

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          •  Unitarian churches (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            have a rocky history with some Pagan groups at the local level as some members have abused and harassed them in the past. At least that was the word (stay away) when I was active in my local Pagan list many moons ago.

            I know there has been a lot of work to try to turn that around and I admit don't know the current status of the situation, but incidents have happened.

        •  I know HBCIII has suffered terrible abuse (0+ / 0-)

          at the hands of organized Christian sects, and responding with white-hot, implacable, unbending hatred is perfectly understandable.

          But if you're pushed to the limits of your resources with nowhere else to go, I figure you have to try to minimize your risks as much as possible and then.... roll the dice, eyes wide open.


          by raincrow on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:47:23 AM PDT

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      •  I know enough (1+ / 0-)
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        And tell me what Unitarian theology is
        to know that if it was my wont to read my grocery list from the pulpit I can.

        Please do not assume I'm ignorant of religion. My quest to find how humans could use religion to be so horrific, means I have delved into various sects and religions in an attempt to understand.

        "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

        by Horace Boothroyd III on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 05:25:28 AM PDT

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        •  grocery list?? That's a cheap shot. (0+ / 0-)

          And sounds like something a Fundy would say.

          Anyway, I'm fine with a grocery list over Leviticus, any day.
          With either one, a UU church would empty out fairly quickly.  

          Some people here tried to help Lorelei, with good intentioned suggestions.  That's all.  

    •  Horace, I think you must have had (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JBL55, MRA NY, mayim

      a VERY unusual Unitarian-Universalist experience.  Was this a Welcoming Congregation?  If one goes to their website,, then  go to 'find a congregation' and look for the chalice symbol.  

      For Lorelei, you will find 28 in Maine.  Of those I believe only 8 have not gone through the Welcoming Congregation program, often because they are extremely small.  

      Some UU churches are more 'christian' than others.  But all are supposed to subscribe to principles, not specific beliefs.  

      There are quite a few of them and United Church of Christ congregations in Maine.  They are not generally rich congregations.  But there may be people within, who know how to access things and help get services.  

      At the very least, attending a couple of services should help your spirits Lorelei, if you can get there.  Most have loops and or aids for the hard of hearing.  

      So sorry you have hit rock bottom, and hope somehow you can access the resources you need.  Even in Maine there should be services to help the deaf.  You may have to specifically ask about an office which handles this.

      •  Perhaps you could explain to me (1+ / 0-)
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        But all are supposed to subscribe to principles, not specific beliefs.
        How I'm supposed to convince them I'm being socially marginalized if their book takes precedence? I can't argue it isn't in their book.

        "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

        by Horace Boothroyd III on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 05:30:19 AM PDT

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        •  every organization made of people has assholes (4+ / 0-)
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          Whatithink, PinHole, GAladybug, mayim

          But the UUA (in the US) does not have a book.  Period.  I'm not arguing that you found a homophobic asshole there -- they exist.  But there is. no. book.  

          •  Bible (0+ / 0-)


            Because it is in the bible as far as they are concerned that trumps my civil rights.

            This is not a new concept.

            I don't know any other way to explain it to you.

            "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

            by Horace Boothroyd III on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 07:48:20 AM PDT

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            •  The Unitarian Universalists (1+ / 0-)
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              do not see the Bible as THE book.  

              The only time I heard about Leviticus, was in a sermon informing me of what was there, and how awful it was.  Unitarian Universalists don't think much of stoning people either.  

              Most UU fellowships have an adult course called "Building Your Own Theology"  Can you imagine the Catholics or evangelicals sponsoring such a gathering?  You have to take some responsibility here, and not just respond to something a committee 500 yrs ago came up with.

              I've written you privately, When you have the time, please carefully read the links I sent you.  

            •  what bible? (1+ / 0-)
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              Most UUs I know consider it nothing more than an interesting historical piece of literature.  They're more likely to take Thoreau's proto-yuppie musings as their One True Way than the Bible.  

              But I recognize that organized religion has dumped on you enough times that you don't need an argument; sorry, I snapped back in defense of the UUA without thinking it through.   As an atheist, I get a little cranky when people assume I'm not, but that's no excuse.

              I totally understand why the diarist (and why you, in the same circumstances), wouldn't feel comfortable seeking help at any place associated with an organized religion.

              •  (giggle) Most UU's (2+ / 0-)
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                antimony, mayim

                are considered to be guilty of being totally unorganized!

                So many people see all churches as being the same.  Even if they don't chose to go to them personally, they should understand there is quite a difference between the Mormons, the Catholics, the Methodists and the Unitarians.  And we haven't even mentioned the Quakers and Ethical Culture!!!

                •  :) (2+ / 0-)
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                  PinHole, mayim

                  The guffaws I get when I shamefacedly admit that I'm a lapsed UU who hasn't been to services in years are always hilarious.  I really do mean to go, I just...never get around to it.  

                  But honestly, I have known enough people who fled toxic church environments that I'm not going to ask anyone to like organized religion.  And UUs do like a lot of the traditional trappings in places -- buildings with steeples, stained glass, etc, so it's not as "different" outside as inside.  

                  •  Those of us whose ancestors (0+ / 0-)

                    came from New England were fleeing the Puritans, Episcopalians, the Methodists, but still liked our steeples and stained glass.  :-)   That's what they were building in Lexington & Concord in the 1800's!  Church style of the times.

                    A couple of years ago we went back to the New Haven church I grew up in.  They had just built an addition - looked like a barn silo to me!   LOL!

                    We're also lapsed UU's, to a small local congregation in upstate NY, but it is due to changes in our living patterns and the efforts of one controlling congregation member.  I try not to throw out the baby with the bath water.  

                    Of course UU's do not threaten anyone with damnation, if they don't show up, so it's easier to be less active.  

                    People always have a choice, and are entitled to their own hang ups.  That some make a decision based on entirely erroneous information, really bugs me though.  ('cause I was brought up Unitarian!)  

                    Thanks for trying to shed some light here.  

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