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View Diary: Rep. Jeff Duncan says progressives might murder registered gun owners in their homes (143 comments)

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  •  I have a question. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Smoh, The Marti, Gordon20024, Penny GC

    When someone is killed with a gun, don't the police know who the gun is registered to?  Do I watch too much TV?  I thought, if I killed someone with my .22 pistol and threw it in the river, and it was recovered, they could trace it back to me?  How do they do that?

    If they can trace it to me, what are we talking about here?  Just asking.  Please be kind in your responses - I'm honestly confused what the fight is about.

    being mindful and keepin' it real

    by Raggedy Ann on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:35:57 PM PDT

    •  Some states require registration, but not the feds (5+ / 0-)

      Alternately, federally licensed sellers keep records of purchases, but there is no centralized way to access those records. Basically you have to trace the serial number from the manufacturer to the retailer and get a subpoena for the buyer's information.

    •  Currently guns are traced to owners by (3+ / 0-)

      using the serial number on the gun to then contact the manufacturer to disclose who was the dealer for the the gun.
      The gun dealer is then contacted to disclose his records on who the gun was sold to.  These records are required to be kept for 20 years by those licensed with FFLs.

      So the actual records are retained by the dealers, not the manufacturers and not the Federal government.

      The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

      by nextstep on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:54:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Before a firearm is offered for sale it is 'test (4+ / 0-)

      fired' at the factory. At that time the bullet (slug) is captured as well as the spent brass cartridge (shell casing). Both are microscopically examined and the traits are recorded.

      When you purchase a new firearm you will find a spent cartridge in a small envelope among the instruction booklet and paperwork. The bullet, which carries faint signatures from the firearm (like fingerprints) is retained by the maker as is available for FBI/ATF examination upon request.

      Serial numbers are stamped into the frame of the weapon and cross referenced with the above obtained data. This number is the method FBI/ATF have of tracing ownership if such a paper trail exists.

      Ownership tracing can only be done when a weapon has been legally sold and recorded according to law. If I were to buy a handgun and pass it on to another person as an individual there is no paperwork required under our current laws.

      The breakdown occurs when person to person sales are unregulated and thus undocumented such as the case with most gun shows. Trail of evidence is lost in regards to ownership.

      Firearms sold from or between regulated dealers are documented including most transactions at gun shows. The process breaks down when someone sells any weapon as an individual, say from the trunk of my car at a gun show or flea market.

      I hope this helps explain the process, Raggedy Ann.

      For 'privacy' reasons the republicans and NRA are fighting gun registration and documentation of sales/transfers of firearms.

      In reality the NRA is protecting the gun makers from possible liability claims.

      Citizen safety and law enforcement have nothing to do with what the NRA is trying to accomplish with protecting gun ownership. The NRA is a lobbying agency for gun makers  - period.

      What, sir, would the people of the earth be without woman? They would be scarce, sir, almighty scarce. Mark Twain

      by Gordon20024 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 03:36:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you so much for this (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gordon20024, LilithGardener

        in-depth explanation, Gordon20024.  All who answered me were very helpful indeed.  I want to be able to have informed discussions with crazed people - like relatives we'll be visiting soon in Texas.  I need to have my ducks in a row!!

        being mindful and keepin' it real

        by Raggedy Ann on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 05:46:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  not true, (0+ / 0-)

        For any firearm I have purchased. And I own over 30 of them.

        I've seen high end rifles come with test targets,  but I can't afford those kinds of guns.

        And even if it were true,  it wouldn't be useful. Simply firing the gun changes the marks imprinted on the bullet and case over time enough that,  if comparing a random bullet or case to data captured at the time of manufacture, your odds of coming up with a match that would stand up in court are effectively zero.

        "Ballistic fingerprinting" is a television myth.


        "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
        "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

        by Leftie Gunner on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 08:08:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you want to believe the signature (0+ / 0-)

          markings from a new v previously fired firearm are different at a later date I wish you the very best.

          The imprint marking of the firing pin on the percussion cap of the shell casing and rifling groves and lands of the projectile are deemed admissible in a court of law.

          We're not addressing test targets. The firing pin makes a unique signature impression on the percussion cap. The shell casing ejected from an automatic weapon imprints with a signature from that mechanism as well.

          Microscopic evidence of firing pin and ejector signatures have been used to identify firearms for many years and cases.

          I don't care how many firearms you own. I was addressing the request for information from another person, not you.

          I'd go so far as to suggest you not begin a comment with the title you choose. It's adversarial and not in keeping with DKos decorum.

          What, sir, would the people of the earth be without woman? They would be scarce, sir, almighty scarce. Mark Twain

          by Gordon20024 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 10:38:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Depends on how heavily used (0+ / 0-)

            The weapon in question is.  Barrels and firing mechanisms wear with use.  The shell/brass comparisons work on the idea that there haven't been that many shells fired between when the gun was used in a crime, and when the lab test fires the thing.

            Having said that, having reference shells might work for many guns used in crimes. Unlike a gun enthusiast, who will regularly take the weapon out and run a box or two of ammo thru it for practice, the average felon may not have any more ammo than the magazine will hold.  So they don't practice.  The gun is only fired in extremis.

            If they got practice, they might hit fewer bystanders, and wouldn't do things like hold a pistol sideways, with bent elbow, at times above their eyes.  (See any video of convience store holdups)

            This planet needs a lot more kids who think taking a lawnmower apart is more fun than playing a videogame.

            by rjnerd on Fri Apr 12, 2013 at 12:28:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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