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View Diary: Daily Kos Elections Live Digest: 4/16 (342 comments)

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  •  MN Senate Proposing 35% Pay Increase..... (14+ / 0-)

    ....for themselves!  

    http://www.startribune.com/...

    Governor Dayton doesn't support the Senate's move, however.  He wants them to give themselves an 80% pay increase!!!!

    The MN Legislature and the Governor have been all manner of tone-deaf all session, proposing a broad litany of wildly unpopular tax increases, taking them back, and then reintroducing them.  A helpful budget report last month showed the deficit was 40% lower than expected, but huge new tax increase proposals linger.  Meanwhile, the previous legislature's electronic pull tabs gimmick that was supposed to pay for the new Minnesota Vikings stadium has fallen short of expectations by about 95% (not exaggerating...that's the number!) and Mayo Clinic is giving the state a "do it...or else" ultimatum on a nine-figure corporate welfare giveaway.

    As dire as the DFL's current predicament was, they've just pricked the balloon of public resentment that's been inflating all year with this outrageously sized pay increase proposal.  If I was a high-profile (or even a medium-profile) Minnesota Republican right now, I'd be seriously considering running against Al Franken right now, because the wheels are in motion for an anti-DFL tidal wave in Minnesota next year.

    •  They really need to get their **** together (11+ / 0-)

      I am sorely disappointed in how this session is going. And I am glad someone else is saying it instead of just me, because I am pretty sure people tune me out at this point. :)

      •  They Look Like Lunatics.... (6+ / 0-)

        Here it is, mid-April, when these guys should be wrapping up their work, and both Houses of the Legislature are introducing separate budget plans that contradict the Governor's budget.  Impossible to see how they can be they disorganized.  Even more impossible to see how they can propose five-figure pay increases for themselves in the midst of the budgetary maze of mirrors they've constructed.  

        •  I dont even care about the raises (6+ / 0-)

          And if they just slipped it into the budget, no one would care about the extra ten grand each of them get. This entire session seems to be have been choreographed to lose the majorities they just won. Fortunately the senate isn't up until 2016, and the MN-GOP is not in a position to make big inroads as they are an unmitigated disaster themselves.

          I actually attribute a good portion of the discrepancy between the House and the Senate based on the nepotistic way chairmen were selected. Basically in the house, every Minneapolis or St. Paul representative got a chair, and all the out state representatives were shut out. And in the senate, all of the northern Minnesota senators got chairmanships, and the metro got fewer (although not shut out). There are some very strange choices with who is running what, like a life long Minneapolis resident running the agricultural committee.

          •  The Raises In Conjunction With The Tax Hikes = (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ChadmanFL

            tangible public resentment.  And voters would be reminded of it in 18 months with a relentless assault of coordinated TV ads that would be absolutely lethal.

            If you had your druthers, who would be the respective leaders of the Senate and House?  Just curious.

            •  I am more in Sync with the senate leadership (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mark27

              Personally. Although the politicians I most closely associate myself with are current and former House members (Sertich, Anzelc, Melin, Rukavina). Don't get me wrong, I like Bakk and company, but I never had much of a working relationship or connection with them.

              •  My Dad Likes All The Iron Rangers...... (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                WisJohn, OGGoldy, pademocrat

                He hangs out at the Capitol a lot during session and has gotten into conversations with everybody from Dick Day to Phil Krinkie.  He's lukewarm at best on Thissen.  Rukavina was his all-time favorite.

                •  They don't make em like Rukavina anymore (6+ / 0-)

                  And the state is worse off because of that. He was never terribly popular with the Minneapolis crowd, but beloved by everyone else, and had a huge amount of respect and clout with Republicans across the state. He was an absolute bulldog, and not a person you wanted to make am enemy out of, not like he had many enemies because he was such a nice guy. But all 5 foot 2 inches of him would take on causes head first.

                  •  The way you portray things (0+ / 0-)

                    the Minneapolis crowd seems to never be that fond of, or openly dislikes, pretty much all DFLers who aren't from the Twin Cities. Why is that?

                    "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

                    by ArkDem14 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 04:32:58 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Classic rural-urban divide. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ArkDem14, gabjoh

                      Different values, different world-views.

                      Gay farm boy, 20, who hit the city to go to college, WI-03 (home, voting), WI-02 (college), -7.00, -3.13, 2012 Daily Kos Elections Pick'Em runner-up.

                      by WisJohn on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 04:45:11 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  It is partially the urban-rural divide (4+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      WisJohn, Mark27, ArkDem14, gabjoh

                      Although Minneapolis politicians tend to be very smarmy and rigid when it comes to ideology. They simply do not understand/care/want to listen to what sells in rural districts, nor do they particularly care about the differences between ag districts and mining districts. Basically they push things that are popular with liberal activists, but are either unpopular or would economically cripple already struggling rural communities. Perfect examples of this are things like opposing non-ferrous mining, or directed taxes at the sugar beet industry.

                      •  or in Oregon banning field burning (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        WisJohn, OGGoldy, ArkDem14, bumiputera

                        on the logic that the smoke and particulate matter is bad for human health, whereas without the ability to burn, farmers are forced to go to greater expense to use more pesticides, fertilizers, and till more, all of which could be harmful to humans and the environment, and they generally have to transition to less profitable crops.  That was a brilliant idea by urban legislators.

                        ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

                        by James Allen on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 06:19:44 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Seems comparable (4+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          James Allen, ArkDem14, WisJohn, bumiputera

                          And it's a shame, really.

                        •  Why aren't people able to listen (0+ / 0-)

                          to other people with open minds and make the best, most logical decision?

                          "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

                          by ArkDem14 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 at 12:56:17 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Rigid ideologues are not know (0+ / 0-)

                            For their listening ability. That goes for both sides of the isle.

                          •  agreed (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ArkDem14, Christopher Walker

                            both the Irish Sea and the Atlantic Ocean are guilty of it.

                            Living in Kyoto-06 (Japan), voting in RI-01, went to college in IL-01.

                            by sapelcovits on Wed Apr 17, 2013 at 06:14:49 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I've always thought of (0+ / 0-)

                            the Democratic ideology to be more pluralistic and open-minded. I think it has to come down to the harsh rejection of progressive politics by rural voters, from almost their outset in the 1970s. The increasingly vitriolic and anti-urban mindset and culture cultivated in rural America is fostering an urban elite that are no longer interested in dealing with them at all, especially in states like Oregon where the urban cores control the state, and in Seattle. But there at least they have the excuse that it crosses partisan boundaries; they aren't dividing the Democratic party.

                            "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

                            by ArkDem14 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 at 11:22:33 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

            •  i appreciate your concern (8+ / 0-)

              but the last pay raise was in 1999 - 14 years ago - and they make $30,000 a year for work that is far more than full time for half the year.  i don't want incompetents and retirees being the only ones there and reasonable pay is a step in the right direction.

              no one likes pay raises, unless they themselves are receiving them.

              as for the budget/taxes etc.  this is the time that the different branches are supposed to be putting forth their plans.  what they come up with in the end, i can't tell, but as long as it makes sense (financially and otherwise) and they don't have a special session, it will be an improvement over the last few years.

              •  "no one likes pay raises, unless they themselves.. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                WisJohn

                ....are receiving them".

                True.  Unfortunately in this case the people giving themselves pay raises have to go in front of voters.

              •  ^^^THIS deserves more recs (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ChadmanFL, itskevin, bumiputera

                It's a real problem to have state legislators so poorly paid for what is really full-time work.  They're poorly paid in Virginia, too, and that limits who realistically can run.  It ensures the affluent have a major leg up, way disproportionate to their ability to win otherwise.

                Unfortunately voters never consider this.  Indeed, that state legislators lean toward being the pillars of their communities in the first place just makes voters that much more resentful at their pay.

                45, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

                by DCCyclone on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 05:52:16 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  That's interesting. (0+ / 0-)

            Who assigns chair positions?

            27, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-10 (formerly PA-02/NY-12, then PA-02/NY-14). Also at http://xenocrypt.blogspot.com.

            by Xenocrypt on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 09:39:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  It's interesting. (13+ / 0-)

      In Colorado, we have a Dem trifecta and it's been so well managed.  This legislative session has been really productive here.

      If you listen to fools, the Mob Rules

      by CO Democrat on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 07:28:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Trivia. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      General Goose

      What is the one state where, according to Ballotpedia, legislators receive no pay?

      27, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-10 (formerly PA-02/NY-12, then PA-02/NY-14). Also at http://xenocrypt.blogspot.com.

      by Xenocrypt on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 07:38:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Good Lord. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mark27, dc1000, betelgeux

      Are they trying to go back into the minority? Maybe next year's session will be better? I won't hold my breath, though.

      Gay farm boy, 20, who hit the city to go to college, WI-03 (home, voting), WI-02 (college), -7.00, -3.13, 2012 Daily Kos Elections Pick'Em runner-up.

      by WisJohn on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 07:40:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Insane (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WisJohn, Mark27, lordpet8

      Many legislators aren't going to be around to earn those new salaries if they keep it up.

    •  Seriously? Why would Dayton want an 80% (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mark27, lordpet8, pademocrat

      increase? What's his justification? What's the justification for the 35% increase, for that matter?

      Why are Minnesota politics so crazy right now?

      Leftist Mormon in Utah, Born in Washington State, live in UT-04 (Matheson).

      by Gygaxian on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 07:46:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Remind me again (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lordpet8

      Why do Democrats do this?

    •  Except Franken is not tied to this at all. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Allen, lordpet8, DCCyclone, gabjoh

      and he's doing pretty good

      "It is the stillest words that bring on the storm. Thoughts that come on doves' feet guide the world." -Nietzche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

      by KingofSpades on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 09:06:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There Is a Long Line of Politicians..... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OGGoldy, gabjoh

        ......who weren't directly responsible for the wave election that befell their states but nonetheless got swept away.  Phil Hare, Russ Feingold, and Mike DeWine are just the first three that come to mind.

        •  The problem is (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          itskevin

          that will people want to go back to the even worse times of the MN GOP?  it's recent memory

          And Franken is pretty popular.

          "It is the stillest words that bring on the storm. Thoughts that come on doves' feet guide the world." -Nietzche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

          by KingofSpades on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 09:11:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Also I doubt (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            R30A, NMLib, DCCyclone

            there will be a GOP wave in 2014.

            "It is the stillest words that bring on the storm. Thoughts that come on doves' feet guide the world." -Nietzche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

            by KingofSpades on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 09:12:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Correct, a GOP wave is near-impossible because... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gabjoh, JBraden

              ...there is now a GOP House that prevents anything from happening that any voters could perceive as Democratic overreach.

              On top of that, the GOP House reminds voters they hate Republicans, which they easily shelved as a concern during the one-party rule of Obama's first two years.

              And state-level waves are rare, although not unheard of.  We can have them in Virginia because state and local elections are staggered in odd-numbered years, opposite the federal cycles.  It's much harder for state-level waves in states that have their state elections in federal years.  But it's certainly not impossible.

              45, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

              by DCCyclone on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 05:59:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Feingold was always vulnerable... (6+ / 0-)

          Wave or no, his posturing on money has always left him vulnerable.

          As for DeWine, I don't think the DFL right now is even remotely comparable to how big a mess the Ohio GOP was in 2005-2006 (then-Governor Taft had huge corruption issues, which permeated the entire GOP, and caused problems for all politicians, even relatively clean members like DeWine, who was also running in a national Dem wave, and whatever 2014 is going to be like, it's really doubtful it will be anything close to as good for the Republicans as 2006 was for the Democrats).

          If Franken goes down, then we have much, much worse problems nationally (and given that the Republicans can't seem to get anyone of any note to run against him, I'm not entirely sure what kind of wave would be required to take him down, given that he seems reasonably popular in his own right).

          Politics and more Formerly DGM on SSP. NM-01, 26 (chairman of the Atheist Caucus)

          by NMLib on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:49:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  public ire may have consequences (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mark27, Xenocrypt, lordpet8

      After a somewhat similar move to increase their own pay, I believe it was 21 incumbents lost their seats in the Pennsylvania state legislature in 2006, either to primary challengers or to the other party.

      and that was before the economic crunch of 2007/2008 made everybody a bit touchy about economic perks for the comfy.

      A Republican is a person who says we need to rebuild Iraq but not New Orleans. - Temple Stark

      by Christopher Walker on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 09:21:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I see no problem with this (5+ / 0-)

      They clearly deserve higher pay. They deserve more than a 35% increase. I doubt more casually engaged voters follow the budget negotiation process very closely. Let's wait to see the final budget (or lack thereof) before talking about the consequences.

      (-9.38, -7.49), Blood type "O", social anarchist, KY-01, "When smashing monuments, save the pedestals. They always come in handy." — Stanisław Lem

      by Setsuna Mudo on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 09:35:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I Suspect You're In a Small Minority... (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wwmiv, dc1000, WisJohn, DCCyclone, gabjoh

        My experience in working in print media was that there was no other issue that fired up populist outrage the way that pay increases for public officials did.  Couple that with more than a billion dollars in proposed tax increases for the peasants and the optics couldn't possibly be worse.

        •  Generally, I don't think (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ArkDem14, ChadmanFL, gabjoh

          these kinds of stories will matter much, but there is some history with political pay raises, as Christopher Walker says, and it's easy to explain and sounds bad.

          27, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-10 (formerly PA-02/NY-12, then PA-02/NY-14). Also at http://xenocrypt.blogspot.com.

          by Xenocrypt on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 09:50:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Why didn't they propose a (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mark27

          more spread out tax package instead of one that hit middle and lower income voters so hard?

          "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

          by ArkDem14 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:36:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You Wouldn't Think Minnesota Democrats..... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ArkDem14

            .....would be so inclined to so closely follow the template of Tennessee when crafting their budget.

            To be fair, they're at least still entertaining the idea of raising income taxes on the wealthy and (gasp!) following through on the campaign theme that got Dayton and the DFL legislature elected in the first place, but consider me skeptical.  I suspect the DFL's fragile coalition will have enough nervous nelly members stared down by the Chamber of Commerce to deny them a majority on taxing rich, especially in the House.  In the end, I suspect only the regressive stuff passes and the DFL will look like complete frauds in the process.

    •  You MNers are always down on yourselves! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Allen, askew

      Even when you have the trifecta there is kvetching.

      Is it the climate?

      A lower deficit, something the GOP legislature screwed up, and a prudent pay raise. The optics are probably bad. It's never popular to raise the legislators' salaries. But I don't see any bad policy.

      http://www.snappac.org/ Students for a New American Politics!

      by redrelic17 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 09:37:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think of it more as pragmatic than pessimistic (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mark27, ArkDem14, WisJohn

        I was as high as anyone going into the 2012 elections (let's be honest, NO ONE thought the voter ID amendment would fail). But everything since January had just been an utter mess in St. Paul, and its all self-inflicted wounds.

        •  Again, why didn't anyone think of merely... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          itskevin, gabjoh

          ...legislating a delay in the pay raises for a couple cycles?  Or even three?  That makes it easy to tell voters it's not self-enrichment, there will be a few elections before anyone gets the extra money.  I think that would work well politically.

          I mentioned this above, and further in the U.S. Constitution the 27th Amendment since its 200-year-delayed ratification does something like this for Congress.

          45, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

          by DCCyclone on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 06:03:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Raising salaries by 35 or 80% (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        WisJohn, nimh

        can never be called "prudent"... especially in any year your raise taxes or cut spending.

        Mr. Gorbachev, establish an Electoral College!

        by tommypaine on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:16:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  13 years of no raise (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lordpet8, ArkDem14, askew

      The article says the legislature has not seen a raise since 1999.  That seems ridiculous.  At least 30% or more is needed just for inflation.

      •  I Dare Say That Just About Everybody Else Earning. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tommypaine, nimh

        $31,000 per year has fared worse since 1999 than Minnesota legislators.  And most of them don't get $15,000+ in per diem to supplement their incomes either.

        I'm not opposed to them having a pay increase generally, but when you're asking households making less than that to fork over stacks of additional tax revenue to pay for Twins stadiums and corporate welfare for Mayo Clinic, you take your lumps yourself.  That's just common sense.

        •  Vikings Stadiums Rather. n/t (0+ / 0-)
          •  The Vikings stadium is a fiasco (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ArkDem14, ChadmanFL

            Although in the scheme of the budget, its not all that significant of a sum. The Mayo Clinic on the other hand, publicly blackmailing the legislature the way they are doing is ridiculous.

            •  I would call them out on the bluff (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              WisJohn, ChadmanFL, JBraden

              The Mayor Clinic has done a lot of political bullshit over the past few years, particularly on health care reform, and now they threaten to move to Vermont, a state implenting a Single-payer system? That's just a fucking laugh.

              From a business perspective, I'd simply maintain that up and moving the clinic is unfeasible; it'd be an enormous material cost, and a lot of the doctors there are settled down in Rochester and would be adverse to just up and dropping their lives.

              "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

              by ArkDem14 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:39:22 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  don't legislators pay taxes too? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ChadmanFL

          ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

          by James Allen on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:03:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I Would Assume So..... (0+ / 0-)

            But unless they're gonna legislate mandated wage increases of $11,000 per year for everybody as they hope to approve for themselves, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison just because they also pay taxes.

          •  Seems like a lot of hand wringing over nothing (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            James Allen, ArkDem14

            I'm sorry, but the cost of living is far higher today than 1999, when that legislature last received a pay raise.  Cost of living is far higher than is was in 1999.  There's never a "good" time for legislators to raise their pay.  People will ALWAYS complain when they do.  The only mistake IMO is the large increase immediately.  Make it a 5% or so raise each year for the next 5 years then tie salaries to inflation or some index.  I live in a lower cost of living area than Minnesota and I can't imagine living on the salary they pay their legislators.  All it does is keep good, middle-class people out of the legislature.  

            •  Just put an inflation index on it (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Xenocrypt, jncca, ChadmanFL

              and have that permanently attached.

              "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

              by ArkDem14 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:39:53 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  The First People That Will Agree About Costs...... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              nimh

              .....being higher than 1999 are the low-income workers whose incomes are more likely to have gone down rather than up by 35% over the same time period.  And nor are they getting $15,000+ per year in per diem supplements.

              I guess I'm a little surprised by the pushback I'm getting over saying it might be less than optimal politics for lawmakers to give themselves a 35% pay increase the same week they release a budget filled with billions of dollars in mostly regressive tax increases.  Here I thought if there was one thing I could ever bring up around here that wouldn't be met with ferocious resistance, it was that lawmakers pushing for nine-figures worth of tax increases might be wise to hold off on giving themselves 35% pay increases.  

              •  Again, can you outline what these (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ChadmanFL

                regressive tax increases are? And why a DFL legislature is proposing them as opposed to a balanced, progressive set of tax increases to deal with the budget problems left them by Republican lawmakers and the stadium fiasco?

                "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

                by ArkDem14 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:50:58 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  you're not getting pushback on the optics being (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ChadmanFL

                bad.  You're getting pushback because that is not the only one should consider when looking at a policy proposal.

                ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

                by James Allen on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:01:47 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  No, there obviously is a "good" time (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mark27, Christopher Walker, nimh

              to raise your wages, that is, when you raise all public employees; or when you cut taxes; or when you run a surplus.

              It's pure moronism to do it when you are raising taxes, especially on people making the approximate same amount of money!

              Mr. Gorbachev, establish an Electoral College!

              by tommypaine on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:19:31 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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