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View Diary: Dan Savage: I Wasn't "Pushed Out" of the Catholic Church. "I Walked Out." (98 comments)

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  •  Please stop using Christian and Catholic (4+ / 0-)

    interchangeably

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 08:18:10 AM PDT

    •  That is important. (0+ / 0-)

      Each has it's own definition. I didn't think I had in the post, but if I did please let me know so I can fix it.

      •  all "Catholics" call themselves Christian (5+ / 0-)

        but a lot of Christians are not Roman Catholic (including me!).

        only Roman Catholics think that "Catholic" is equal to Christian because they are taught they are the One True Church (and by implication other churches don't count).

        Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
        Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

        by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 09:59:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Catholic IS equal to Christian. (0+ / 0-)

          All Christians suffer from the same belief that they are the One True Church. Therein is the problem with religion.

          I traded it in for a whole 'nother world...a pirate flag and an island girl.

          by glb3 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 09:52:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  perhaps you are not familiar with Venn diagrams (0+ / 0-)

            all Roman Catholics are Christian.

            All Christians are not Roman Catholic.

            And all Christians do NOT teach that they are the one true church.  Some are much more accepting of other Christian denominations than Roman Catholics are.

            My church for example offers full participation to everyone, no matter what denomination they are, whether they are baptized or not, whether they are believers or not.

            you are free to judge religion as harshly you please.  but my guess is that you are passing judgment based on a limited bit you know rather than the big inclusive picture.  It's like judging US politics by the worst of what Republicons do, completely ignoring progressives who are striving for something better

            Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
            Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

            by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 10:06:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "are much more accepting of... (0+ / 0-)

              other Christian denominations". How accepting are you of other religions, or of those who choose not to believe in God at all?

              I traded it in for a whole 'nother world...a pirate flag and an island girl.

              by glb3 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 10:27:21 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Let's stop using Judeo and Christian... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ian Reifowitz, a2nite

      ...interchangeably too.

      I traded it in for a whole 'nother world...a pirate flag and an island girl.

      by glb3 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 09:45:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i've never seen anyone (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eXtina, Ian Reifowitz

        use Judeo and Christian interchangeably.

        "Judeo-Christian" as a compound adjective is a different thing

        Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
        Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

        by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 10:02:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  me neither - I think the 'and' is implied nt (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ian Reifowitz

          "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

          by eXtina on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 10:53:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I always thought that term was an attempt at unity (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ian Reifowitz

            to affirm that most of what are thought of as "Christian values" (things like the Ten Commandments, for example) actually come from Hebrew scripture and predate Jesus by centuries

            Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
            Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

            by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 03:19:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  HMMM... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TrueBlueMajority

              ...Catholics are Christians.

              Never heard a believer in Judaism describe their values as Judeo-Christian.
              Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are all Abrahamic religions. Why not use the term Islamo-Christian?

              Religion is so messed up.

              I traded it in for a whole 'nother world...a pirate flag and an island girl.

              by glb3 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 09:44:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  ? (0+ / 0-)

                i'm not sure why you say Catholics are Christians.  Was that remark directed at me?  I already said the same thing upthread.

                Of course believers in Judaism don't describe their values as Judeo-Christian.  Christianity built itself on Judaism, not the other way around.  So Christianity acknowledges its roots.  Judaism has no obligation to anything that came after it.

                While Islam is an Abrahamic religion, the prophet Mohammed was born more than 500 years after the birth of the Christian church, so it is not part of Christianity's "roots".  That's why we do not refer to Islamo-Christian as a term.  But we do refer to the Abrahamic religions, which is another way of referring to the moral precepts that are shared by Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

                many things about religion are messed up, i agree.  but it has also done a lot of good in people's lives.

                Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
                Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

                by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 10:07:11 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Islam is part of the same roots as Christianity... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  TrueBlueMajority

                  ...that's what makes them both Abrahamic religions.
                  Yes, Christianity sprouted its own tree from those roots, but you can't deny your "12th cousin 3 times removed" as being part of your family tree.

                  I traded it in for a whole 'nother world...a pirate flag and an island girl.

                  by glb3 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 10:18:37 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  "but it has done a lot of good in people's lives" (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  TrueBlueMajority

                  Religion isn't doing the good in other people's lives, it is other human beings choosing to do good things for their fellow man. Religion is inert without people choosing to use it as a tool...sometimes for good, sometimes for evil.
                  I happen to believe mankind can do good things for each other without religion getting in the way and separating us from each other.

                  I traded it in for a whole 'nother world...a pirate flag and an island girl.

                  by glb3 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 10:40:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Religion is a mirror that reflects... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    TrueBlueMajority, Ian Reifowitz

                    ...only what mankind projects into it.

                    I traded it in for a whole 'nother world...a pirate flag and an island girl.

                    by glb3 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 11:38:31 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  true and true (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Ian Reifowitz

                      some human beings choose to do good things for their fellow man because of their religion

                      but your best statement is this:

                      religion is a mirror that reflects only what mankind projects onto it.
                      i say that a lot to people who believe that religion is all bad!  it reflects whatever you feel about it to begin with.  if you feel strongly negative about religion, you are more likely to reflect and emphasize the very strong negative things about religion.

                      Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
                      Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

                      by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 05:21:03 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I agree with you that... (0+ / 0-)

                        ...many find strength and comfort in the tribal, or social structure of a religious organization. That's why we have professional sports teams and book clubs. My particular feeling regarding religion addresses the spiritual side that religion tries to grapple with. That being, each religion believes it has exclusivity to the knowledge of how to lead you to God/the after life. God and religion are not synonymous.
                        Some religions are/have been bullies, others more passive in their conversion techniques. They view "non-believers" as broken, and in need of fixing, to put it kindly. And, there are some who want to live their lives free of believing in God, or in an existence after death.
                        In America, all are supposed to be equal. I fear some want to change that.
                        Enjoy your day.

                        I traded it in for a whole 'nother world...a pirate flag and an island girl.

                        by glb3 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 08:36:30 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

        •  The philosophies, not the words. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ian Reifowitz

          I traded it in for a whole 'nother world...a pirate flag and an island girl.

          by glb3 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 12:43:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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