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View Diary: *New Day* — Photos from Oregon Kossacks. Upset? What would your final word be or parting shot? (174 comments)

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  •  ...gold is in free fall too..lowest in 30 years... (7+ / 0-)

    Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences.

    by paradise50 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 08:10:36 AM PDT

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    •  Apparently the commodities traders get hit with (6+ / 0-)

      margin calls too, just like the equity folks.

      •  ...oh god yes they do... (5+ / 0-)

        ...and in equities, margin calls happen only to those playing with options.

        In commodities, however, it is always a sum zero game. In any commodity, when you see something (corn, soybeans, copper, wheat, cows, pigs, gold, etc.) suddenly go down in a big hurry, you know the big boys (the trading houses) are purposefully pulling the rug out of those who are losing their shirts.

        They always screw all the "little players" because they always know what ALL the "bets" are out there.

        So, seeing gold and silver fall off a cliff tells me the big boys are making $billions while the losers are losing an equal amount AND then the big boys will swoop in and buy gold and silver on the margin with an expiration date months out  that will expect them to rise in price BECAUSE there will no where but UP for the price to go...

        Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences.

        by paradise50 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 08:54:46 AM PDT

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    •  Lowest in 30? (4+ / 0-)

      That doesn't sound right. I'm gonna look something up on that. It got pretty low around the late 90s; spiked way back up after 9-11.

      Here ya go: Lowest from 1980-2011 was $271 in 2001, that being on average for the year. For a few years before that, it was in the 300-400 range. And the last 3 days, prices were in the $1300-1400 range.

      Maybe there was a big single day drop. But prices are still way way above what they were back then. I wrote a story about someone stealing gold from a mine; spent awhile figuring out how much could be carried in a backpack, and the price of gold at different times in deciding when to set the story. Around that time, the remake of The Italian Job came out, too. I did the calculations about how much weight they were carrying in those little Cooper Minis, too - for the original and remakes.

      Not even close to the lowest prices over that time period.

      Mark Twain: It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

      by Land of Enchantment on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:00:00 AM PDT

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      •  ...that's just what they said in TV... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        glescagal

        ...when factoring in all the manipulation and inflation relative to what the dollar is worth now and was worth then and the GDP of the entire world.

        They didn't show the way they got to that conclusion...

        Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences.

        by paradise50 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:37:16 AM PDT

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        •  ...perhaps they did mean a single day's... (0+ / 0-)

          ...or week's drop. The dollar 30 years ago was worth $2.35 2013 dollars...so $400 worth of gold 30 years ago is worth $940 today.

          And that's the the difference in intrinsic worth 1983 dollar to 2013 dollar. I'll bet if you factor in all whatever else they did, they wouldn't be too far off claiming gold has dropped in value to levels of 30 years ago.

          But like I said, they didn't show all the factors they used to derive what they said. They simply could have been exaggerating some as well. (hair on fire)...

          Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences.

          by paradise50 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:42:43 AM PDT

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          •  ...OK...I'm gonna get myself in trouble... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dharmasyd

            ...right now...before I go to the gym.

            Ready?

            Other factors that have changed since 1983 are actually pretty damned big:

            1) we used to have GNP (gross national product) then. Now we have GDP (gross domestic product). What's the difference? Back then all "products and services" created by American companies were included because, even though they've always had tax loop holes, they weren't what they are today. Much more of their international product was actually taxed and went to pay for our government's opperation.

            2) Inflation in 1983 actually accounted for ALL the things we buy. As the years passed, they simply started excluding stuff from determining inflation. Energy costs and food costs were simply excluded.

            SO, when gas prices spike $0.40 per gallon in three weeks (just an example of something we experience every year)...that isn't included in determining inflation.

            Same even for housing overall. Any person reading this with common sense can tell you that cost of housing, gas and food has NOT gone up a mere 2.4% per year during the past 30 years (which is considered to be the rate of inflation on average over all that time).

            SO, if you factor in what I call "reality" in terms of the "real price increase" of things we buy...AND the fact that stuff we have no choice in buying like food, shelter and energy...probably the price of gold per ounce at $1350 today really is more realistically like $400 gold per ounce in 1983.

            ~~~~~
            OK, here's is where I'm gonna get shit...as in get in real trouble.  THIS whole CPI social security stuff. Pssst...it's actually intentionally been taking place for a few decades now. YUP...the inflation rate they claim we live with is NOT the real inflation rate.  So, whether you realize is or not CPI -type social security has been going on for quite a while.

            They've already factored in the fact if gas goes up a lot, those on fixed incomes will drive less or walk more (if they can). They've already factored in that if energy prices to heat or cool go up, people on fixed incomes will put on more layers of clothes or sweat a lot more. They've already factored in the fact people buy cheaper food (and a lot of that is buying food at the Walmarts of the world vs the Whole Foods of the world).

            So, I'm gonna say something that will cause shit to rain down from the sky on me ---> Obama actually offering CPI up to the GOP is, in truth, just copping to the reality of how inflation is calculated (as in untruthfully) today.

            If he is really smart, he will get some concessions from the GOP. In essence, he really is only giving up something that is a concept. Anyone on social security can tell you they've skipped years in which their checks did NOT go up at all. Pssst! This CPI crap has already been going on.

            I am leaving now...later...

            Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences.

            by paradise50 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:31:37 AM PDT

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            •  This is, indeed, happening, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              paradise50, Dr Erich Bloodaxe RN

              ...but it has never been so obvious as it has become now.

              I, and other Soc. Sec. recipients had received no COLAs the past 3 years, until this year.  Again, we got our first COLA increases to Soc. Sec. checks in 4 years, just this year.  I was awarded a $12 / month increase.  the next day, I was told my rent would go up $11 / month.  That's right, $1 more in spending money in the last 4 years.

              Paradise is basically correct.  The documentation for this can be found in the following 2 articles.  The first deals with the idea that Cyprus type austerity and confiscation of monies in banks can, and probably will, happen here.

              Cyprus Can Happen Here

              The 2nd article discusses the 2009 international planning by the G-20 financial overlords to implement austerity as a means for global finanacial stability:

              Buried on page 83 of the 89-page Report on Financial Regulatory Reform issued by the U.S. Administration on June 17 is a recommendation that the new Financial Stability Board strengthen and institutionalize its mandate to promote global financial stability. Financial stability is a worthy goal, but the devil is in the details. The new global Big Brother is based in the Bank for International Settlements, a controversial institution that raises red flags among the wary . . . .
              Financial Stability plans.

              By plan, we are being taken back to feudal serfdom.  We need to know this.

              Thank you, p50 for pointing this pout.  ( sic: typo: pout should be out, but I'm leaving it because I feel like pouting).

              "The war against Bradley Manning is a war against us all." Chris Hedges

              by dharmasyd on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 02:57:35 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  ...Chained CPI is an awful thing... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                dharmasyd

                ...but, in truth, Obama is really just calling it like it currently already is. It's like finally calling the kettle black...

                Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences.

                by paradise50 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 03:12:27 PM PDT

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            •  I don't think you deserve to take heat for that. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              paradise50, dharmasyd

              And I certainly agree - the CPI has been bogus for quite a while.  I think the reason people are so pissed right now about the offer is that it takes that bogus CPI and then goes even worse.  If anything, if he really wanted it to be more reflective of the needs of those to whom it would apply, they would end up getting drastic increases, and it would end up adding to the deficits rather than detracting from them.

              •  ...if Obama is really smart... (0+ / 0-)

                ...then calling it what it really is (identifying what is actually the current reality regarding social security) and putting it out there as a bargaining chip in order to then get more real revenue AND starting to close the loop holes the richest folks and corporations use...then he could actually make social security stronger.

                I'm still an optimist regarding Obama, but I must admit I no longer think he's so hot when it comes to compromising strategies...

                Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences.

                by paradise50 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 06:37:33 PM PDT

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