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View Diary: Republicans embrace Social Security cuts they'll blame on Obama (294 comments)

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  •  Ah, you ARE (3+ / 0-)

    making an 11 dimension chess argument.  And.....there goes your credibility.

    Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

    by democracy inaction on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:25:49 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Political Positioning Is Some Alien Concept to You (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joe from Lowell

      Apparently.

      And yet, you post on a site dedicated to politics. How odd.

      Since when is politics 11th dimensional chess?

      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

      by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:27:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Apparently (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Free Jazz at High Noon

        obliviousness is a concept that is not foreign to you at all.

        Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

        by democracy inaction on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:37:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  My Such Hostility! So, Not Interested In Actual (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          joe from Lowell

          Discussion? Just here to vent bile and have people agree with you then?

          Have fun!

          This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

          by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:44:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Seriously. A poison pill isn't complicated chess. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Beetwasher

        It's Politics 101.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:36:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  When you are giving your opponent the rope with (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TheUnknown285, greenbell

          which to hang himself, you don't attach one end around your own neck, or worse, the necks of your family.

          Enjoy that 1 rec, joe, looks like a strong political position.

          Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

          by k9disc on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:52:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is the fourth time he's done this. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Beetwasher

            Tell me, did he have a rope around his neck in the 2012 campaign, after the debt ceiling talks?

            How about after the fiscal cliff talks?

            How about after the SuperCommittee?

            Is there going to come a point where you learn from experience?

            The truth is not a popularity contest.

            Art is the handmaid of human good.

            by joe from Lowell on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 03:07:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And when did he or the rest of the (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cynical at Best

              Democratic Party gain the supposed benefit of having done these things?

              "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

              by bryduck on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 04:56:36 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Debt ceiling...fiscal cliff talks...supercommittee (0+ / 0-)

              Thanks for reminding us all of the betrayals of the President. Now that he's been reelected, presumably due to the positioning on the above mentioned issues, he can govern as a true progressive, right? Oh, wait... Gotta "position" more so we can win the next election... and then position some more... at some point you have to stop positioning and start governing the way the people who elected you want you to.

      •  Throwing your values, your rhetoric, and your (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TheUnknown285, greenbell

        constituency under the bus for political position is a terrible idea.

        I don't think Saul Alinsky would approve.

        Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

        by k9disc on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:50:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I've Provided Evidence of EXACTLY What Alinsky (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NedSparks
          Approves of and his methodology.

          You've given nothing but your opinion.

          Alisnky believes:

          the organizer must begin the task of agitating: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, and searching out controversy. This is necessary to get people to participate. An organizer has to attack apathy and disturb the prevailing patterns of complacent community life where people have simply come to accept a situation.
          Hmmm, I believe that by including CCPI in his budget proposal, it seems Obama has accomplished exactly that.
          "The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength."[2]
          The GOP seems pretty goaded to me as well.

          This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

          by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:55:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Goaded? Giddy, more like... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TheUnknown285

            Democrats have no ideological moorings remaining. There is a gap between rhetoric, values and policy, and that is not at all a position of political strength.

            It's why Democrats have been tracking right, chasing independent, focus grouped rhinos. The further they go, the less serious that they can be taken.

            Democrats and Republicans are going to vote for this. It will be a bipartisan 'grand bargain' put forth by the President and passed by 'serious' people.

            The end.

            Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

            by k9disc on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 12:00:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Love Your Crystal Ball!! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              NedSparks

              You've seen the future and know how this will play out! With certainty!

              Ladies and gentlemen, the Amazing Kreskin!  Bravo sir!

              Again, this is your opinion /theory about how this may play out. Why is YOUR theory any better than anyone elses?

              The GOP is in disarray over this. It seems you haven't noticed. First, they come out screaming to protect SS. Then Boner tells everyone to shut the fuck up. Now they seem to be emracing  cuts.

              You're telling me that the GOP on the record embracing cuts to SS is a BAD thing going into '14?

              Really?

              Oh, that's right, you're crystal ball tells you so! Thanks Kreskin!

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 12:04:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Republicans have been trying to do this since (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                greenbell, Cynical at Best

                Goldwater.

                This isn't some kind of quick hit, super nimble and athletic move. This is in their wheelhouse. It's their historical chosen policy. It's their turf.

                LIEberman wanted to in the late 90s, and I think Gore would have traded the lockbox for some kind of chipping away at Social Security and Medicare, but can't be sure.

                They've just not been able to get a Democrat to pull the trigger.

                If you wanted to go all Alinsky on them you would accuse them of Sabotaging Obama and the Economy. And force them to own up to the fact that they wanted to sabotage America so they could please their wealthy donors and corporate sponsors.

                That's our turf. Standing up for the little guy. Making progress. Bettering our citizenry.

                Nope...
                "Democratic President Obama cut Social Security."

                 

                Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

                by k9disc on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 12:28:31 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  How Did Dems "Pull The Trigger?" Has Something (0+ / 0-)

                  Been implemented?

                  What are you talking about?

                  Obama proposed this budget. Not Dems. Nothing's been implemented.

                  "The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength."[2]
                  Indeed, they have. And you think somehow they will be able to pin the blame on Democrats for them seizing upon the cuts in OBAMA's proposal?

                  Really?

                  After adovicating for decades to privatize and destroy SS?

                  You think they are that nimble to walk that line and keep their coalitions together to pull that off?

                  Really?

                  How did a Dem Pres. cut SS? Has something been cut that I missed?

                  You've already decided how this is going to play out.  You apparently believe there is no other possibilities as to how this can play out.

                  That's pretty narrow minded and short sighted, don't you think?

                  This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                  by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 12:32:16 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  How do you fail (0+ / 0-)

                    to understand that the President has been seen as the leader of his party since at least Jackson? As leader of the Democratic Party, is it absurd to think that he speaks for them? Voters dont sit down and do a cost-benefit analysis when they make a voting decision, they use heuristics. Shortcuts. One of the most common is looking at the positions of notable leaders and taking that as the position of the party. This has been documented in peer-reviewed academic political psychology journals for 40 years now...

                    •  How Do You Fail To Understand That (0+ / 0-)

                      We are dealing with unprecedented situations that may require non-conventional solutions?

                      Perhaps Obama was serious when he maintained he was going to change the way business is done in Washington.

                      Let me ask you this:

                      You Seem To Think Your Focus On Minutiae Prevails.
                      It doesn't.
                      18 months from now, in local congressional districts across the country, if Dem rep A is running on protecting SS, and GOP loony rep B is running on whatever the fuck he's somehow cobbling together...Who YOU gonna vote for?

                      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                      by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 07:02:22 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Your entire premise (0+ / 0-)

                        is that Obama can propose this and look like a moderate and then democrats can oppose it and look like defenders of ss. This premise is based off the idea that the average voter pays enough attention to tell the difference between the views of the leader of the DP and the views of congressmen in the DP. Sorry but they don't. You haven't done anything in your reply to even address that criticism. You may understand 11th dimensional chess but you screw up big time when you start to think the average voter does.

                        "if Dem rep A is running on protecting SS, and GOP loony rep B is running on whatever the fuck he's somehow cobbling together...Who YOU gonna vote for?"

                        First of all, Rep A might be running on protecting SS but the GOP candidate will be running on the same thing, just like they did when Paul Ryan proposed to gut Medicare, they ran on protecting and preserving Medicare. So I imagine folks in that district will vote for their party and independents will be so confused by all the lies that who knows who theyll vote for. They certainly wont perceive any reason to vote for the Dems.

              •  Why is YOUR theory any better than anyone elses? (0+ / 0-)

                It's based on actual observations?

                •  Never Said It Was Better, In Fact (0+ / 0-)

                  I've always maintained I could be wrong.

                  It's certainly possible that Obama is deluded, naive or evil. He's human, those are all possibilities.

                  However, if I am going to judge the man, I will do so holistically.

                  This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                  by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 06:56:32 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  You still think the President (0+ / 0-)

            is some sort of community organizer? You're in fantasy land.

            He never was one. Even when he was supposed to be one he represented real estate developers as much as the community, while getting his foot in the door for a political career.

            You think he's a follower of Alinsky? Don't make me laugh.

            We decided to move the center farther to the right by starting the whole debate from a far-right position to begin with. - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

            by denise b on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 02:41:49 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So NOW He's Never Been A Community Organizer? (0+ / 0-)

              Oh dear. Just let all your conspiracy theories hang out! Get 'em out! ROFL!!

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 02:44:53 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  "11-dimensional chess" is a term naive people use (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Beetwasher, jdsnebraska

      to make it sound like it isn't naive to take everything professional politicians say at face value.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:35:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  11-dimenisonal chess was a term coined by (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cynical at Best

        supporters of the President and it was used often on this site by them to excuse his policies and tactics by implying and directly stating that his critics weren't smart enough to keep up with Obama's moves.  Many Obama supporters even posted pictures of chess games to go with it. It wasn't until so many people started laughing out loud at the thought of 11-dimensional chess that supporters stopped liking the term so much.

        Don't trust anyone over 84414

        by BentLiberal on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 05:05:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Obamabots invented the term 11th dimensional chess (0+ / 0-)

        Geez I thought only Republicans tried to rewrite history.

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