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View Diary: Republicans embrace Social Security cuts they'll blame on Obama (294 comments)

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  •  What Material Against Dems? (0+ / 0-)

    Is this a Dem proposal? Or Obama proposal?

    If Dems come out strongly in support of protecting SS and GOP comes out supporting cuts (which is what they are actually now doing and what this diary is about), how do they have anything to use against Dems?

    This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

    by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 01:15:38 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  The fact that Pelosi (0+ / 0-)

      is on board with this indicates to me that her arm was severely twisted by the President. With Pelosi and Reid and the President behind it, how do you imagine the Democratic Party can be strongly against it?

      I can't see Pelosi agreeing with this except under extreme pressure from the White House. That's how much he is determined to do this.

      We decided to move the center farther to the right by starting the whole debate from a far-right position to begin with. - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

      by denise b on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 02:30:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Pelosi And Reid Are Behind It? (0+ / 0-)

        So they are sponsoring and supporting legislation in the House and Senate?

        When did that happen?

        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

        by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 02:37:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They have made statements (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          denise b

          About it to the press, saying that they are ok with chained CPI.

          •  So You Admit They Have Not Backed Actual (0+ / 0-)

            Legislation in either chamber?

            So, tell me again how they support it. With links. Thanks.

            And then tell me how this impacts 18 months from now.

            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

            by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 06:16:49 PM PDT

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            •  I'm on my phome (0+ / 0-)

              And don't have a way to give links. Theyve said they are pk with it though.

              •  Hello! (0+ / 0-)

                And that translates into....? What? Legislation and policy? Via...underwear gnomes?

                This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 06:32:58 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  you seem to think ypu have a point (0+ / 0-)

                  They are in the media saying they are ok with chained cpi and the president proposed chained cpi. Thus, the democrats support cutting chained cpi in many viters minds.  You don't have the gotcha you thinkyou have here, and your spinning is pathetic.

                  •  You Seem To Think Your Focus On Minutiae Prevails (0+ / 0-)

                    It doesn't.

                    18 months from now, in local congressional districts across the country, if Dem rep A is running on protecting SS, and GOP loony rep B is running on whatever the fuck he's somehow cobbling together...Who YOU gonna vote for?

                    This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                    by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 06:40:15 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  You don't have to back actual legislation (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              denise b, DeadHead

              to take a position. In Political Science there is even a special term for it. It's called position taking. Imagine that!

              •  I'll Say This Again, Because It's Cool and Pithy: (0+ / 0-)
                You Seem To Think Your Focus On Minutiae Prevails (0+ / 0-)
                It doesn't.

                18 months from now, in local congressional districts across the country, if Dem rep A is running on protecting SS, and GOP loony rep B is running on whatever the fuck he's somehow cobbling together...Who YOU gonna vote for?

                This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 06:45:16 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  You seemed to indicate in a post above that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DeadHead

      you know a lot about politics and the rest of us don't. Well if you knew a lot about politics you would know how useless it is to run against your own President. It is a complicated message and voters, unfortunately, simply cannot stand complicated messages.

      •  You Now Give Me A Third Opportunity (0+ / 0-)

        To repost a comment I'm somewhat proud of. I thank you for that opportunity, sir or madam!

        You Seem To Think Your Focus On Minutiae Prevails (0+ / 0-)
        It doesn't.
        18 months from now, in local congressional districts across the country, if Dem rep A is running on protecting SS, and GOP loony rep B is running on whatever the fuck he's somehow cobbling together...Who YOU gonna vote for?

        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

        by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 06:47:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What a joke. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DeadHead

          You seem to keep on repeating that thinking it makes you look like you know what you're talking about. All it shows is that when confronted with a true debate you actually have nothing to say. How about being brave and actually try to respond to my critique when position taking stops and governing starts. You say he's taking this position to get folks elected, so that he can then pursue more progressive policies. Well, where are they? He did that shit all throughout his first term and now its time for the second part of your strategy to kick in, the part  he can actually enact the policies he wants, and yet he keeps on pushing this Republican bs and you keep saying he's still taking positions so that Democrats can win future elections and pursue progressive policies. I'd love to hear your response to that but it seems like you can't come up with one. Sleep on it and get back to me?

          •  I'm Still Waiting For Internal Consistency From U (0+ / 0-)

            I suppose I shall continue to wait.

            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

            by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 07:44:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

              •  Not Really, We're Disagreeing On Tactics (0+ / 0-)

                At this point.

                You've conceded the main point that it's all about local politics.

                This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                by Beetwasher on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 07:54:06 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  What are you talking about? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  DeadHead

                  We've been disagreeing about tactics the whole time, from the beginning, not at this point. And you still haven't even attempted to respond to my critique of your view of tactics. As far as local politics goes, that's cute, but I conceded no such thing. Far from it. Today, all politics is national. We see it in the HUGE decline in split-ticket voting and the debates in congressional races being dominated by national issues. I appreciate that you conceded that Obama has placed democratic candidates in house races at great risk by his actions. Now that we know and agree what (one of) the risks is, can you explain to me what the tactical benefit is? You said that Obama's image doesn't matter. It seems like it would be a lot easier and smarter for democratic congressional candidates to be in tune with their President proclaiming the same message. So the fact that you've said Obama's image doesn't matter kind of takes electoral positioning out of the list of potential benefits of this action. Do you mean to say the advantage is not electoral positioning but positioning for negotiations with the GOP? I would be amazed by that, because you always start out a negotiation asking for way more than what you want and what you know you're going to get, hoping that when the negotiation is finished you will have been negotiated down to what you really wanted all along or a happy middle ground with a slight advantage to your side. If your claim is that this is Obama positioning for the negotiations, that implies that he thinks he's never going to get ONLY chained CPI, and save the rest of the program, but that he expects to have to submit to many more cuts than just chained CPI. That's what people are on about.  If you ever get around to responding to my critique of your tactics, let me know. In the mean time, I'll continue to observe the never-ending positioning and wait for the point when positioning to win an election stops and promoting the policies you ran on begins. Maybe it happens when you die and go the afterlife or something, I don't know. I do know that we've been "positioning" since Bill Clinton and instead of expanding our social safety net we are fighting a defensive battle to try and prevent it from being dismantled.

                  •  Glad To See You Agree Its Tactics! (0+ / 0-)

                    Now you have to work on actually understanding the idea that perhaps Obama's tactics don't make sense to you because you seem to think his overrall strategic goal, towards which those tactics are being applied, is not negotiating an actual deal, but maximizing leverage for Dems in '14.

                    And yes, there's.always.risk to any strategy and tactical maneuvering.  That's life.

                    This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                    by Beetwasher on Wed Apr 17, 2013 at 05:05:34 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Ok, so you think this is part of positioning for (0+ / 0-)

                      the deal. Well, I now have no further reason for talking to you, because you are just as clueless about negotiations as he is.

                      •  This still stands (0+ / 0-)

                        Do you mean to say the advantage is not electoral positioning but positioning for negotiations with the GOP? I would be amazed by that, because you always start out a negotiation asking for way more than what you want and what you know you're going to get, hoping that when the negotiation is finished you will have been negotiated down to what you really wanted all along or a happy middle ground with a slight advantage to your side. If your claim is that this is Obama positioning for the negotiations, that implies that he thinks he's never going to get ONLY chained CPI, and save the rest of the program, but that he expects to have to submit to many more cuts than just chained CPI. That's what people are on about.  

                        •  I'll Place My Bets On The Political Acumen of The (0+ / 0-)

                          Guy sitting in the Oval office, as opposed to some clown in the peanut gallery.

                          This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                          by Beetwasher on Wed Apr 17, 2013 at 06:46:22 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  It's So Funny That You Think You Know More (0+ / 0-)

                        About negotiations and political positioning than the President of the US.  ROFL! You're cute!

                        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                        by Beetwasher on Wed Apr 17, 2013 at 06:45:35 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

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