Skip to main content

View Diary: Anti-Chechen Racism Unbridled (152 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  In war no one is innocent. (8+ / 0-)

    The Irish are guilty of terrorism against the British, the British are guilty of damn near ethnic cleansing in Ireland, the Japanese sneak attacked the u.s. at pearl harbor, the u.s. had embargoed japans ability to import oil, dooming their ecconomy and military so of course they attacked ournavy at Pearl, and so on and so on.

    Its war.  No one is innocent and pure outside of Hollywood movies.

    The Chechens committed atrocities.  The Russians comitted atrocities.

    We don't have to hold one side as innocent of evil to acknowledge the evil of the other side.

    In wars, both sides are almost always evil.

    Who the hell wants to be part of a political movement that has as its most obvious feature politically correct prune lipped moral scolds and incessant guilt trips about how much we all suck?

    by Rick Aucoin on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 01:09:43 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Not "Damn Near" ethnic cleansing. (6+ / 0-)

      When you intentionally starve to death or forcibly deport half of the adult population and destroy the language and culture of those who remain, it's not damn near ethnic cleansing, it's Genocide.

      The rest of your post is fairly accurate. Brutality begets brutality.

      An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

      by OllieGarkey on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 06:06:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Many of those killed in Grozny (0+ / 0-)

        were Russian civilians, and Dudaev undertook his own ethnic cleansing campaign against Russian civilians.

        There are no good guys in the Chechen Wars, and it disturbs me to to see Kossaks blindly embracing kavkazcenter propaganda.

        •  I'm confiused. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hammerhand, JesseCW, Rick Aucoin

          I didn't once deny the brutality reported on the part of the Chechens.

          I don't deny Dudaev's brutality. When you say that "There are no good guys" in the Chechen wars, you're right.

          But who's embracing propaganda? Is anyone seeing this one-sidedly from the Chechen perspective?

          (Also, in my previous post, I was referring to the genocide of Irish Gaels by the United Kingdom during the potato famine.)

          An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

          by OllieGarkey on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:04:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  That may be true (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rick Aucoin

          but there are outcomes to wars that lead to peace and justice, and there are outcomes that merely lead the parties to repeat them until the side that can create peace and justice wins.

          The Russians are not going to solve problems that only Chechens can solve among themselves, and vice versa.

          •  Ethnic Chechens were not the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Be Skeptical

            only people living in Chechnya on the eve of the civil wars, and the more militant Chechen ghazis today are seeking an Emirate of the Caucasus, no longer just Chechen independence. That means they seek to establish their rule over Muslim and Christian Daghestanis, Ingushetians, Kabardans, and Russians.

            So this is not a problem that "only Chechens can solve among themselves."

            •  The only way that design (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              OllieGarkey, Rick Aucoin

              will be given up is by Chechens having some opportunity of its realization.  Which these radicals will presumably grasp at and fail to achieve.

              Which reiterates my point.  You're not going to get rid of the radicalism and the desires via paternalism and suppression.  Ugly as it may be, Chechens (e.g.) have to deal with these desires from a position of sovereignty and responsibility for their permanent demise.  From a position of oppression and irresponsibility that's not going to happen.

      •  On the subject of Ireland and Britain... (0+ / 0-)

        ... I'm not familiar enough with the actual deeds of the British to make that much of a declarative statement myself, but I'll gladly yield to those who are more informed.

        Hell, all you really have to do is find a place where there is armed conflict (Israel/Palestine, UK/Ireland, Russia/Chechnya, Afghanistan/U.S. Puppet Afghanistan) and you can be pretty damn sure there are acts of evil being perpetrated, by both sides and all sides, and motives behind both sides which are stained with greed and vengeance and imperialism.

        There are no good guys in any war.  At best, at absolute rare best, there is a side that if it overcomes its opposition, will result in a better chance for a better future for the people who live in the place the conflict was occurring in.

        But that's just a best case scenario.

        Who the hell wants to be part of a political movement that has as its most obvious feature politically correct prune lipped moral scolds and incessant guilt trips about how much we all suck?

        by Rick Aucoin on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 04:23:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site