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  •  I'm not betting on the collapse of civilization (9+ / 0-)

    yet.  I do think we are at a global tipping point re consciousness of climate change and things are happening.  If they're happening in time I don't know.

    Macca's Meatless Monday

    by VL Baker on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 01:41:37 PM PDT

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    •  "happening in time" ? ? ? (9+ / 0-)

      Just a few years ago the received wisdom was that 350ppm (there's even an organization by that name) CO2 was the absolute maximum for "climate as usual" and that anything beyond that would lead to catastrophe.  We're at 400ppm (or close enough that the difference doesn't matter) now, and will be at 450ppm in (less than) 20 years.

      And about those "internationally agreed targets" ? ? ?  There's nothing "legally binding" about them . . . they are "targets" at best, and carry even less weight than those quaint rules about torture and refugee right of return and unprovoked wars of aggression.  There is no penalty for failing to hit the "target", and no enforcer to impose the penalty if there was one.

      About the only thing to agree with is that the "smart money" is betting against leaving known (low cost) reserves in the ground . . .  

      Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

      by Deward Hastings on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 02:26:19 PM PDT

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    •  Maybe (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cynndara

      Watch this.

      The wild card here is the store of methane hydrates in the Arctic Ocean floor. The Arctic Ocean may be free of ice as early as Summer of 2015. We are looking at a big change here as the Arctic will warm considerably with a lower albedo (reflectivity), new ice and absence of the cooling moderation of ice. As this changes currents and weather patterns it might cause the release of methane. Methane is 100 times more powerful than CO2 as a greenhouse gas on an instantaneous basis. Methane has a half-life of 7 years. It converts to CO2. Some Scientists are convinced that it will take centuries for significant release of methane, others aren't so sure. There is a staggering amount of methane in the Arctic floor and in Arctic  tundra. There is good evidence that global temperatures follow CH4 (methane) closer than CO2 atmospheric levels. This could very well be the global thermostat.

    •  we are seeing the end of the Industrial Revolution (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      beach babe in fl, quagmiremonkey

      which began around 1760.

      It was an economic model predicated on two key assumptions: the availability of unlimited amounts of cheap fossil fuel energy, and the ability of the biosphere to absorb unlimited amounts of pollution and industrial waste products.

      Those assumptions were a reasonable approximation of reality until sometime during the 1970s. Then reality began increasingly diverging from those assumptions, until now they don't approximate reality at all.

      Hence that model is becoming increasingly unviable, and consequently the world economy based on that model is becoming increasingly unstable, requiring ever-more extreme measures to yield ever-diminishing returns.

      A two-hundred-fifty-year-old economic paradigm that dominates 90% of world economic activity does not die quietly or cleanly. The end of the Industrial Revolution and the transition to a post-industrial economic model will shake human civilization to its very foundations.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 05:12:44 PM PDT

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