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  •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

    that gun safety folks won't go away so easily as in the past. But I just get perturbed with the unrealistic expectations some have regarding what was possible in this latest instance. The thought that if Obama had just given a speech a day or a prime time address that would have tipped the scales is absurd.  

    I think the gun-safety proponents need to take a cue from the anti-abortion proponents. Focus on the state level, get even minor laws enacted when possible and celebrate those small victories as victories, not as defeats because they didn't conquer every aspect of the issue at once.

    •  That's not what I said ... (0+ / 0-)
      if Obama had just given a speech a day or a prime time address that would have tipped the scales is absurd.  
      Those are your, rather extreme, words.  My beef is about how hard this President tries, including on the gun control issue.  My take is not that hard and, in fact, because he actually went further on gun control than just about any other issue, he looked good on gun control as long as you didn't "grade him on a curve."

      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

      by accumbens on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 03:11:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Where we disagree (0+ / 0-)

        Is that I do think he put a lot into the effort, both directly and indirectly (via Biden).  

        You say my words exaggerate your position, but then you say he doesn't try hard enough. So tell me precisely how he could try harder in a way that would meet your satisfaction?  Do we even know everything he did behind the scenes? I don't. Are you really grading the effort or the end result?  

        I believe Progressives think Elizabeth Warren tries really hard, she's tenacious, she speaks truth to power, etc. So let's see how many of her legislative ideas become law. Probably very few, and those that do will be watered down or contain compromises that will displease liberals but are necessary to get the bill to pass. What grade will she get?

        I don't have a problem with people criticizing Obama; I've done it myself. But I also feel he has been worthy of praise at several points over the last 4+ years. If you want to echo the sentiment of Fox News' Roger Ailes and others who call Obama lazy, go for it.  I just happen to disagree.

        •  The point is how hard he tries. For me, it's a (0+ / 0-)

          question of how hard he tries.  Whether he wins or loses matters of course, but to lose without trying - or trying very hard - is unforgivable. Taking a strong stand and losing makes a difference if that stand is based on sincerely held values and principles.

          So, yes, Warren may not get her policies passed, but if she sticks to her guns, I'd give her an A+.  And the grade is not just for trying, but for educating people and demonstrating that some things are worth taking a stand for even in failure.  Can you actually imagine Obama making such a sacrifice?  I can't.

          The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

          by accumbens on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 06:06:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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