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View Diary: Guns and terrorism, a double-barreled standard (26 comments)

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  •  Part of the reason we feel differently about the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cryonaut

    two things is that if we hear someone has been murdered, their life taken against their will, through no fault of their own, we see it as someone being wronged, whereas if someone decides to end their own life, that's a choice they made.

    Of your 30,000 the vast majority are suicides. Suicide risk skyrockets in old age, especially amongst males. Loss of any life is indeed terrible but lumping them together like that does not lead to understanding.

    To understand our reaction to death by firearm you have to first understand that not all deaths are the same.

    Likewise there is justifiable homicide.

    How big is your personal carbon footprint?

    by ban nock on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 06:07:54 AM PDT

    •  very few of gun deaths are justifiable homicides (15+ / 0-)

      and suicides are far more likely to be successful with guns than by other means, as research clearly demonstrates

      disease is a natural cause of death, and yet we do what we can to prevent it

      wars may sometimes be necessary, and inevitably they cause deaths that we lament

      that we refuse to address the damage done by our gun culture costs us many deaths.

      The NRA knows it.  Which is why it worked to prevent CDC from collecting the data which would so clearly demonstrate it.

      So here's my offer:  you want to disaggregate the data, then first let the government officially collect and analyze all the data and publicize it, on a regular basis.

      Include in that the costs to American society of that gun culture

      -  loss of earning by those killed and hence loss of tax revenue

      - cost of medical treatment for those injured but not killed

      - psychological costs of the ongoing barrage of multiple shootings

      - psychological costs of the ongoing barrage of accidents, suicides, domestic violence incidents

      "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

      by teacherken on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 06:14:24 AM PDT

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    •  Regarding suicide - that's how you see. I am not (5+ / 0-)

      so sure that is how parents and loved ones see it. In many cases (most) I am guessing they see it as a case of a depressed relative acting on impulse having easy access to a highly dangerous killing machine. And, I am guessing they probably are in favor of more restricting gun laws.

    •  You are so gun toter. (6+ / 0-)
      during calendar year 2009. The numbers for gun deaths is broken down into several categories:

      Suicide: 18,735 deaths
      Homicide: 11,493 deaths
      Unintentional: 554 deaths
      Legal interventions: 333 deaths
      Undetermined: 232 deaths

      Total: 31,347 deaths

      The second data set tracks non-fatal injuries by guns. According to the CDC, there were 73,505 non-fatal firearm injuries in 2010. (We will ignore an additional 13,851 non-fatal injuries from BB or pellet guns.)

      Since when is 18,735 the vast majority of 31,347. It looks like a little more than half to me. Totally ignores more than TWICE as may were injured by guns. (which is free to you and me, in hospital, rehabilitation and other costs) It might be the math. Screwy math for calculating gun damage.

      And in England where the method of choice was a gas oven the suicide rate went down 30% and stayed there when gas ovens no longer could be used for that purpose. -- Interesting .

      guns are fun v. hey buddy, watch what you are doing -- which side are you on?

      by 88kathy on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 06:40:43 AM PDT

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      •  Thanks kathy (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        88kathy, a2nite

        That lie keeps getting repeated (by the same people). So I suppose we have to keep debunking it. IMO lies ought to become HR-able after sufficient debunking (like LIHOP & MIHOP), but the site standards are what they are.

        "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

        by nosleep4u on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 08:44:10 AM PDT

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        •  When even I see what they are doing, you can (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nosleep4u, a2nite

          be sure the vast majority see through it. What cracks me up is how the RkBAers say things to rack up mojo in other discussions for use in their games. I never HR them. But I do mark them in my subject line so I can always find their comments. I learned that from them.

          guns are fun v. hey buddy, watch what you are doing -- which side are you on?

          by 88kathy on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 08:53:24 AM PDT

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    •  Another funny thing about the numbers is. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      murrayewv, a2nite
      Unintentional: 554 deaths
      Legal interventions: 333 deaths
      Toters like their guns for protection little lady.

      Don't you think it is funny/strange that the unintentional deaths outnumber the legal intervention deaths. I am thinking that the legal intervention deaths are law enforcement by a vast majority and the unintentional are gun toters 'protecting' themselves (oopsie) by a vast majority. Vast majority speaking of course.

      guns are fun v. hey buddy, watch what you are doing -- which side are you on?

      by 88kathy on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 07:36:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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