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View Diary: You are much better than I am at figuring out what actions we should take (208 comments)

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  •  You're scaring me, dude (6+ / 0-)

    We've just gone through a set of diaries accusing TPTB here at DK of corruption and co-optation in selecting panels for NN13 because a couple of proposals did not survive the selection process. When the complainer learned what the selection process is and the extraordinary measures that are taken to ensure that those of us who want to be part of that process are - and have always been - encouraged to participate in it, the result was an apology diary, an apology diary that nonetheless has its detractors who still insist against the original poster that DK has been co-opted and is 'run' top-down.

    Now we have your comment asking TPTB to assert themselves against the community 'in its best interests'.

    Let's review:

    At the most basic process level, every one of us can submit a diary - multiple diaries per day now - making a case that a particular subject is worthy of community attention.

    On top of that, DK now includes the 'Group' function that allows one quickly and easily to coalesce with every other member who agrees in that judgment and to campaign in a coordinated manner for its inclusion as a matter of high importance.

    And now we learn - I, for one, for the first time - that Chris and crew are observing carefully the results of all those efforts - individual and collective - to arouse the interest of this community.

    Aren't we talking about 'the marketplace of ideas' here? And isn't that a good thing?

    Or is community judgment only good when the results accord with our own individual preferences?

    I like things the way they are.

    Too late for the simple life, too early for android love slaves - Savio

    by Clem Yeobright on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 04:05:14 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I think you're misreading what I'm suggesting. (3+ / 0-)

      The current methods by which TPTB select items for activism is based on finding elements that meet certain thresholds of popularity & impact. But those methods alone will create an eventual circle-jerk - possibly still a very effective one, but the purpose of this diary appear to be to ask how to be more effective - to help catch items and elements that are perhaps long, slow burning fuses which don't meet their existing thresholds but which are important to the community and could also help extend the reach, impact and effectiveness of our community.

      Remember, we've got some diaries that post at odd times in the firehose of throughput - some might hit the rec list, but shortly be replaced by other popular trends like Pootie or Woozle diaries, or by a rant by Bob Johnson when Rex donates his socks to charity and then claims the deduction on his own return (where he also lists Bob as a dependent, I hear).

      Some items that don't make the currently established thresholds are ones that might meet community standards of importance, and provide additional potential to expand the site's reach & potential effective impact overall, thus extending it's overall success.

      Thus, there needs to be some adjustment to the thresholds as well as some way to help identify sub-threshold issues which also serve to grow the community & advance its agenda as a whole.

      •  You want to save Billy Budd, don't you? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        melo, Smoh, GreyHawk

        I am having trouble understanding where fiddling with the thresholds ends and imposition of administrator quirks and preferences begins - and why that would be a good thing.

        We need an assembled, dynamic list of topics that folks can provide feedback on, which can also have notes added that would help identify when, where and how there could be additional advantages. And sometimes, those advantages may only consist of "because we're human and it's the right thing to do" - not because it helps achieve a "greater' agenda.
        Everything above is already in place except 'assembled', isn't it? Isn't everything there covered in user diaries?

        I'm impressed with the amount of effort Chris and friends have put into what they do. I certainly don't feel disempowered by the application of an algorithm to the activity of this site, but I would if I saw personal predilections being honored.

        That said, your 'circle-jerk' reference is valid and troubling. I hope - and expect - that there are periodic reviews and tweaks of 'the algorithm' so that  ... Billy doesn't hang, for instance, and I suppose I am comforted with the knowledge that kos can at any time hit 'Reset' if his site becomes pets.com ...  Still, I like what it has become, and I'm grateful for the effort put into it and especially for the renunciation of authority by TPTB. Thanks, people!

        Too late for the simple life, too early for android love slaves - Savio

        by Clem Yeobright on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 06:09:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree & concur - (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Clem Yeobright

          circle-jerks are troubling, and the folks here have created something very comforting with their yeoman's efforts at letting the community drive.

          I think that simply tweaking the algorithms, however, might not have the additional capacity to increase effectiveness that they're hoping for.

          But your other concern is crucial, too - anything added to the process of selection still has to have a primary community-driven aspect. I don't think the admins would be "imposing" authority - I think they'd be expanding their selection parameters for what gets pulled for action items, in a way that helps provide more balance to include some of the slower-but-longer-burning community issues that don't meet the current (but quite effective) thresholds for engagement.

          And I think the community is quite likely the key to providing ideas on how to identify such sub-threshold elements in a way that maintains integrity in the system, helping the admins make selections that aren't accidental personal projections of what is important.

          How? Not sure of a method at this time - but I'm sure Chris & others will welcome any suggestions for consideration. :)

        •  Additional thought: (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Clem Yeobright

          The admins, for example, might see a "trend" developing for a CT-like subject. Even if 1/3 of the site's active users at a particular time seem to be jumping into the fray, it may be something that's too detrimental to the site & reputation as a whole - so they don't go for it. It doesn't become an activity, or it might become a bannable offense if it gets too ridiculous.

          Other times, the site might jump on a hot topic like the live grenade of gun control - potentially driving off or alienating some users depending where the chips land.

          That's partly why kos rightly deserves the right to hit "Reset" and lay ground rules.

          Not all "big" topics will be selected, despite community participation, simply because the topic doesn't fit within certain internal guidelines that help provide the infrastructure that we are operating within.

          Similarly, some not so "big" topics might be worth popping into the community's wider lens - even if they don't meet the current threshold.

          The tricky bit is determining how to find and select such topics for action.

          ...suggestions...?  ;)

        •  By the way - love the Billy Budd reference. :) n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Clem Yeobright
    •  I can't imagine OPOL didn't know (0+ / 0-)

      at least roughly what the selection process was. It was heavily discussed and presented last year. And many might not think that issues that seem to you like "personal preferences" (some more putting down words were used), when they quite clearly are issues whose interests go even beyond US borders?

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