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View Diary: Is Apple about to pull off one of the largest tax dodges in history? (64 comments)

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  •  Though entirely without expertise in the field (1+ / 0-)
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    johnny wurster

    I would have to suppose that "The Largest Tax Dodge in History" would be an awfully high bar to meet.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 11:03:06 AM PDT

    •  If it's not the largest, it's close (2+ / 0-)
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      lgmcp, Odysseus

      I haven't done the research/math to adjust historical tax dodges for inflation, but we're dealing with a company, in a raw numbers sense, that fluctuation between being the largest and second largest company in the history of the world in terms of market capitalization and revenue.

      Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -- Clarke's Third Law

      by The Technomancer on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 11:09:30 AM PDT

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      •  so what you have (1+ / 0-)
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        erush1345

        is an unsubstantiated attack against Apple, a charge you admit you made without researching to see if your contention is true or not.. Certainly, Apple is not the largest company in the world, nor is it the second.  A simple Google would show it is #19, with Exxon and Royal Dutch Shell as 1 and 2. It took me 10 seconds to refute your point, So why did you post this in the first place?

        "Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government" T. Jefferson

        by azureblue on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 11:30:32 AM PDT

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        •  Apple is #2... (0+ / 0-)

          ...in terms of market capitalization.  It trades off with Exxon-Mobil on a regular basis depending on how the stock price fluctuates.

          And you did nothing to actually refute the main point, which is that Apple will be dodging the tax bill by issuing debt rather than performing the buyback with cash on hand but held overseas.  Remember, Apple is currently one of the few public companies out there to hold zero debt.

          Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -- Clarke's Third Law

          by The Technomancer on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 11:34:23 AM PDT

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          •  no, I did not have to (1+ / 0-)
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            erush1345

            some other poster here already did that, and tried to patiently explain to you that what Apple is doing with its profits is very unexceptional, but you retreated into a "it's immoral!" corner when faced with the facts.

            And now you parse your definition of largest company. I got mine from Forbes and I checked with Wiki, and they are right and you are wrong.

            What I see is someone who wants to play word games to slam a profitable and successful company for doing something all comparable international companies do, and which is, as other posters have told you, is clearly legal. See, you clearly ignore that Apple, which makes profits overseas, has no obligation to move money made from overseas sales of its hardware, software, etc., to America. In fact, some other countries consider that tax dodging. Apple is under no obligation to keep all of its money in one place, but, for sure, it's not putting it in the Bahamas..

            The company posted a profit of $9.5 billion on revenue of $43.6 billion in the first three months of this year, compared to a profit of $11.6 billion on $39.2 billion in the same quarter in 2012. This is what Wall street is gnashing its teeth about. oh no! Apple did not make a huge pile of money, only a big pile of money!

            While profits are down, sales are up: The number of iPhones sold in the quarter rose to 37.4 million from 35.1 million during the same quarter last year.The number of iPads sold surged to 19.5 million from 11.8 million a year earlier, the earnings figures showed.

            "Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government" T. Jefferson

            by azureblue on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 11:52:58 AM PDT

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            •  Here we go again... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              KenBee

              1.  If we're not going to enforce any sort of corporate taxation, let's stop kidding ourselves that we'll do anything other than live in a low-revenue country.  Which programs do you feel should be cut so that Apple can legally dodge billions in taxes, and so other corporations can not pay these supposedly burdensome taxes they all bitch about?

              2. I modified the title so that it would stop distracting from the point.  It's still one of the largest tax dodges in history.

              3.  I never referred to Apple as the largest company out there, either in comments or in the diary.  I did say that they fluctuate between #1 and #2 in market capitalization (this is what "largest in terms of market capitalization" means, not any other definition you're dredging up from Forbes or Wikipedia) in response to you, which is absolutely 100% true.  I understand that it's difficult to stay on topic, but I have confidence that you'rean intelligent enough individual to do so.

              4.  In conclusion, what your response is saying is that you're A-OK with not just Apple, but any large corporation using arcane accounting loopholes to dodge a tax bill.  If you're just not happy that I'm attack Apple, they aren't the only ones doing it, so pretend I said Google or Microsoft or GM instead.  And they should do it because shareholder value is more important than funding the government.

              Sorry.  I just don't agree with that.

              Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -- Clarke's Third Law

              by The Technomancer on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 12:04:40 PM PDT

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      •  GM did $45Billion in 2010 - far above Apple case (2+ / 0-)
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        lgmcp, erush1345

        See my comment above.

        The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

        by nextstep on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 11:33:28 AM PDT

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