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View Diary: Innocent Chechen Refugees, Used as Pawns, Then and Now (a history lesson) (52 comments)

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  •  yeah, the thing's been trying to make trouble (0+ / 0-)

    for about three or four weeks now. he took similar umbrage to a comment of mine that took a similar tack to your final paragraph.

    at one point he remarked to me:

    "Hating America is so 2007"

    which pretty much identifies him as clearly as if he had used "Democrat" as an adjective.

    To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

    by UntimelyRippd on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 02:26:34 PM PDT

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    •  No matter what I write, there will always be (0+ / 0-)

      incoming verbal assaults.  Not because the content is offensive. It's because people are looking for conflict.  Is that normal human behavior?  Do we have conventions that we observe when we make an initial contact with another human?  The venue doesn't excuse hostility as an introduction.  But we don't see ourselves and the behavior becomes normalized.  We condition ourselves to accept it.  

      Defining other people is habitual.  Demonizing them.  Wrapping them in whatever identity we can imagine.  What about ourselves?  We don't see ourselves and maybe we don't want to.  Not too clearly at least.  Nothing comparable to the way others are judged.

      And so that one suggestion that could make readers compare themselves for a moment is uncomfortable.  This diary isn't primarily about what the Russians did, or the Chechens did, or what the bombers did.  It's about the role of the US.  What we did through our representative leaders.  Here too, our actions are invisible.  

      I hear people saying the FBI screwed up because it didn't heed a heads up warning that came in from Russia.  Because Russia is looking out for us?  What we should have done would have made the Chechens' refugee status a sham.  Not just the Tsarnaevs.  There are others in the US too.  If I was one of them, I'd want an answer about that.  That's just how unconscious some Americans can be about themselves.  

      There is no existence without doubt.

      by Mark Lippman on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 09:10:34 PM PDT

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      •  People just have a hard time being (0+ / 0-)

        remotely rational, or even thoughtful, about their own tribes; and of course, we all belong to different scales of tribe, and the smaller the scale gets, the less rational we become. Thus, the Tsarnaevs' mother quite clearly really believes that her sons were simply incapable of such an act, and that the whole thing is just some sort of weird hoax, put on by who knows whom?

        Meanwhile, the same wingnut wackos who believe that the US government is a constant force of limitless evil here at home, simultaneously get all hot and bothered if anyone suggests that the same Eebil Federal Gubmint is doing, you know, anything wrong, ever, anywhere else to anyone else. It's about as bizarre as human behavior gets.

        Hilariously, I for the first time today learned that OMG ERIC HOLDER SAYS HOMESCHOOLING IS NOT A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT!!!! What actually happened, of course, is that the federal government's lawyers argued in court that people shouldn't be granted political asylum for violating their home country's schooling laws, because, you know, the right to homeschool doesn't really come up to the same level as the right to freedom of conscience. Nonetheless, the wingnuttery are sure that as soon as he confiscates their guns, he's going to come drag their kids off to those gubmint indoctrination camps.

        I wonder what they'd say if a million chinese citizens showed up demanding asylum because the chinese government won't let them own AR-15s.

        To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

        by UntimelyRippd on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 09:42:18 PM PDT

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        •  Political asylum has only been given to a short (0+ / 0-)

          list of people over the last five decades.  People who would be persecuted in their home country because they represent a political challenge to the regime in charge might be given political asylum.  A home schooling snag doesn't rise to that level.  Requiring juveniles to attend accredited schools doesn't threaten their safety for refugee status either.  

          Eric Holder is very popular with the right wing.

          There is no existence without doubt.

          by Mark Lippman on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 11:56:55 AM PDT

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