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View Diary: Democrats, Republicans, and Zionist fanatics (82 comments)

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  •  Yes, I would have felt different (5+ / 0-)

    and I'm certain if she could have expressed herself in that way she (and her husband) would not have abandoned the Democratic Party twenty years ago in the mistaken belief that the Oslo Accords represented a "sell out" of Israel.

    You have to look at who these people actually are, and what they actually believe.  The data is there in the diary.  They're not just ardent supporters of Israel.  They are willing to abandon all progressive politics because of their fanatical support of  Israel.

    When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

    by litho on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 08:00:39 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I don't see a (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bozmo2, JNEREBEL, MBNYC, zemblan

      corelation between their position on Israel and their succumbing to the relentless tide of coservative dreck coming from not only Faux News but  major parts of  the Mainstream media. I think you have made a subjective leap that it was their Israel position that  caused them to  go to the dark side. But, millions of Americans feel that way about Israel, including to a mjor extent . . . .me, however, that has not forced the vast majority to abandon their  progressive positions on other issues such as taxes, guns, the environment, and the economy. There are probably  many reasons  why  this couple got captured by the right and while the propaganda regarding the democrats so called abandonment of Israel may be a small part of it, I don't believe for a second that it was the moving and only force.

      •  No, it is not a subjective leap (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ChadmanFL, Brecht, poco

        to quote people's words.  They told me in as many words that they left the Democratic Party over the Israel issue and that over time, after having already begun to vote Republican because of Israel, they came to adopt the Republican positions on other issues as correct ones.  When I tried to have a conversation with them about other Democratic positions, such as the deficit or health care, they brought the conversation back to Israel.

        What you seem to willfully misunderstand is that these people are not run-of-the-mill pro-Israel American Jews.  They are anti-Palestinian fanatics.

        Now, unless you want to deny such a category of person actually exists, it might be a good idea for you to accept the possibility I in fact met two of them while canvassing for a Democratic senatorial candidate...

        When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

        by litho on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 10:37:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think you may (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JNEREBEL, zemblan

          be confusing anti-palestinian sentiments with the more prevalent  anti-muslim feelings on the right that are trumpeted  by Faux News and  probably are poisoning this couples' minds. Moreover  as I recall you canvassed  directly after the Boston Marathon bombing was resolved and that probably exacerbated their feelings with regard to muslims that they transposed onto the Israel-Palestine conflict. As I said previously, it is almost impossible to actually know what it is that moves people in their opinions. Nothing in your original diary led me to  believe that these people were anti-palestinian, they merely  seemed to believe that the palestinians did not actually want peace. That remains a mainstream American Jerwish view that can be held without being a fanatic anti-palestinian. Not believing there is a partner for peace on the other side  does not  make one anti  the other side. Would you consider yourself a fanatic anti republican because  the republicans have shown they  will not compromise on any issues no matter what. If tomorrow the republicans came out  for  more revenue  in conjunction with  spending  cuts that showed they were willing to compromise, would  you not take them up on it?

          •  Man, you have serious issues (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poco

            either with projection or reading comprehension!

            I quoted their words.  They told me they left the Democratic Party twenty years ago, because of the Oslo Accords.

            Neither one of them talked about "Muslims."  Both of them talked about Israel, and the wife talked about the "PLO."

            You may not realize this, but the PLO -- when it was the leading force of the Palestinian nationalist movement -- never identified itself as Islamic.  How could it?  If Fatah is secular and major component organizations like the PFLP and DFLP are Marxist and formally atheist?  Religiously Christian Palestinians also found a place for themselves in the PLO, as they have as well in the PNA.

            In fact, it was the aggressively secular nature of the PLO that contributed to the rise of Hamas and a more Islamist wing of the Palestinian movement.

            You're making an awful lot of assumptions about these people, whom you have not met, because apparently you want to deny the reality of anti-Palestinian fanaticism.  Ok.  Have fun.  But I was at the door.  I looked in her eyes.  I heard their words.

            They're fanatics.

            When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

            by litho on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 03:52:50 PM PDT

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            •  "I quoted their words." (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JNEREBEL

              Maybe even correctly. But - oh boy - their eyes! Their eyes were so fanatic! That was your spin.

            •  You also see (0+ / 0-)

              what you want to see! You also are ascribing emotions and  thoughts of these people, that may or may not be true. What happened 20 years ago during Oslo may have been a  catalyst, but we haven;t  lived in a vacuum since then. I will admit, I wasn't all that pleased with the Oslo accords either as I thought that they were too  lenient on concessions by the palestinians and asked too much of the Israelis. That is my opinion and one shared by many jewish americans as well. Does that make me an anti-palestinian fanatic? I think not. I do ascribe to a 2 state solution. If you do not see  their opinions as valid on the I/P issue, whether you think them right or wrong, I question your objectivity. While they may use different terms then you such as the outdated PLO  as  opposed to the Palestinian Authority, I stand by my  statements, the  whether they say it or not, if they  have been captured by the FauxNews universe They will conflate the muslim/islam issue with the I/P issue and their emotions were surely inflamed in the aftermath of  the Marathon Bombing.

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