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View Diary: Democrats, Republicans, and Zionist fanatics (82 comments)

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  •  You would have served your candidate far better (4+ / 0-)
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    MBNYC, leftynyc, JNEREBEL, zemblan

    if you woud have simply corrected their misunderstanding of Markey's views on the subject, and left it at that.  Markey is not well served by you injecting your own personal disagreement with voters, particularly when it is based on a viewpoint that he completely disagrees with.

    And, of course, the candidate is not well served when one of his canvassers throws around the term "Zionist fanatics."

    •  You do a lot of canvassing, I suppose (2+ / 0-)
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      Fire bad tree pretty, poco

      These guys were fives.  Canvassing protocol holds that you should thank them for their time and move on to the next door, because you're never going to convince them to move towards your candidate.  In fact, general instructions are that for anyone worse than a three, you should simply move on.

      So, you're right, I shouldn't have stayed at their door.  I chose to stay briefly because I was nearing the end of my turf, and I knew I would ultimately hit all the doors I had been assigned.  I knew I could take a few minutes to engage in polite and respectful conversation with this couple, regardless of the deep and profound differences between us.  Given those differences were based on a serious misunderstanding of my candidate's position, I felt further justified in at least attempting to engage them, especially because the subject of the difference happens to be an issue I know a great deal about.

      The husband grew angry with me and shut down when I attempted to correct his blaming of Obama for the current size of the US federal deficit.  He refused to even listen to the argument that the economic crisis began long before Obama was elected, as that would have challenged his preconceived notion that the Democrats are responsible for the deficit.  When his wife, who had previously demonstrated the knowledge that Markey had gone to AIPAC, went on to acknowledge Republican responsibility for the fiscal crisis, I did feel -- as I laid out in the diary -- there may be the basis for a conversation.

      That is, the husband demonstrated Republican fanaticism in addition to his Zionist fanaticism. I still hoped, however, that the wife's greater openness to actual evidence -- you know, facts and stuff -- might allow for a more productive conversation.  The wife, however, demonstrated the same closed-mindedness about Israel that her husband had shown on fiscal matters.

      Remember, my comments took the form of "I see that differently" not "you're wrong, this is what really happened."  But her response to each one was to delve further into her perception of Palestinian perfidy, and to assign sole responsibility for the Mideast conflict to the Palestinian side.

      Now, I know that you and many of the other commenters in this diary agree with her on that point, but I certainly hope and believe that you do not agree with her that Democrats have sold out Israel and we should all vote Republican instead.

      The choice facing you here, really, is either to acknowledge that her fanaticism led her to a bad decision -- to reject the Democratic Party -- or to simply deny that decision was in any way related to her position on Israel.

      To take the latter option, however, would fly in the face of her own words about what she had done.  I'm sorry to have put you in such a difficult spot.

      When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

      by litho on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 12:09:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So you admit you blew it. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MBNYC, JNEREBEL, zemblan

        You knew full well that the appropriate thing to do was to simply move on, but you just couldn't help yourself. You just had to inject yourself into an issue over which your candidate's views are in total disagreement with your personal agenda. And while it would be understandable if you simply wanted to correct the facts about Markey's views, you -- by your own admission -- went beyond that and mentoned your own beliefs.

        You screwed up. But as is apparent from your tossing around the term "Zionist fanatics," you just couldn't control yourself. Well done.

        •  I didn't blow it (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Fire bad tree pretty, poco, Brecht

          I spent five minutes on a lost cause.  We didn't argue, nobody accused anybody of anything, and nobody got mad (except maybe the husband when I challenged his false accusation of the president).  At the end of the civil exchange of profoundly different opinions, I left.  I didn't change anybody's mind, but I felt it was time well spent.  After leaving, I completed my turf, knocked every door I had been assigned, and was able to plant some seeds on behalf of my candidate in a couple of threes I met a few blocks over.  It was a successful afternoon canvassing.

          Three days later, still disturbed by the blatant fanaticism I had observed, I decided to write it up for dailykos, a website I am supremely confident neither of these people read.

          You think I told the woman I thought she was a fanatic?  Don't know where you got that idea...

          When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

          by litho on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 04:02:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You indeed did blow it (1+ / 0-)
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            JNEREBEL

            You were there on behalf of Markey, and your exchange of "profoundly different opinions" included an attempt to push your own perspective, one that stems from an agenda that is profoundly in conflict with the views of the candidate. This was neither the time nor the place for you to take even baby steps to push that personal agenda.

            You would do well to recognize that you did not serve the campaign well in this regard, and you should try to demonstrate more self-control in the future.

            •  Thanks for the advice. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Fire bad tree pretty, poco, Brecht

              I fairly represented my candidate.  I did not commit suicide, and I did not deny who I am, but at the same time I made clear to the homeowners they had more in common with the candidate than they believed.

              When my candidate wins election, as I am sure he will, I intend to pressure him to open up towards a more expansive view of Israeli history, one that confers upon Israel's aggressive actions towards the Palestinians their proper role in understanding both the origins and reproduction of the ongoing conflict.

              That is, as a campaign volunteer I am working hard to get him elected, and to establish a foundation to enlighten him once he gets into office.

              I know you want to blame the Palestinians for everything and the Israelis for nothing, and I know you are profoundly disappointed that an American Jew would even think of criticizing Israel on fundamental matters.  But you don't own me.  And you certainly don't control my thoughts nor my actions.

              Thanks for the advice.  Markey will win.

              When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

              by litho on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 05:05:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I too hope and believe Markey will win (0+ / 0-)

                And when that happens, you will have every right to make known to your new Senator your views and attitudes about Israel, Zionism, Zionists, and Jewish supporters of Israel.  That is a cherished American  right.

                And I am absolutely confident that, like your other excellent Senator, Markey will not for a second consider adopting those hideous views and attitudes as his own.

                Oh and by the way, you and I have had enough communications over the years so that you know full well that this statement of yours is not true.

                I know you want to blame the Palestinians for everything and the Israelis for nothing, and I know you are profoundly disappointed that an American Jew would even think of criticizing Israel on fundamental matters.  
                So that makes you . . . a liar.

                Here's a little advice -- lying ain't the best way to persuade anyone toward your point of view.

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