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View Diary: What TV Sci-Fi Villain Society Most Resembles Republicans? (100 comments)

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  •  DS9 was wildly ahead of it's time (9+ / 0-)

    Years before, who would have thought a trek would take on concepts like:  Security against a terrorist force would ask people to lose civil rights (in a fantastic two parter), Hunger and the treatment of those who couldn't work, racism and the treatment of people by assumption.

    Characters grew and developed on DS9 in a way no other trek really imagined; and we first saw the concept of a future that wasn't super pristine and where good people felt like sometimes bad things were the only options they had.

    It's also one of those rare shows that a decade+ later, I can watch most of the episodes and say "wow"

    Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

    by Chris Reeves on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 08:19:30 PM PDT

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    •  The secular side of DS9 was superb. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tmservo433, FloridaSNMOM

      The spiritual digressions into Sisko's role as The Emissary were, however, ill-conceived.  It would have been more effective if they'd shown it being a pure superstition on the part of the Bajorans that Sisko had to play along with against his ethical preferences in order to do his job and protect the Quadrant.

      Democracy is a habit, not a circumstance.

      by Troubadour on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 08:29:05 PM PDT

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      •  I guess, as an atheist (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Troubadour, splashy, FloridaSNMOM

        I always found the worm hole aliens (prophets) to be the easiest way to relay what creates a diety to some.. it wasn't as though they were really Gods.. they were just beings far more advanced then the bajorans; and they never really tried to pretend that they were more than that.. though they did enjoy the worship.  

        This to me was very interesting, in that these deities needed almost Greek-era heroes to do their bidding, sometimes terrible bidding, and yet, those same people because of a lack of understanding had begun to worship them.

        I thought it was a great way to show why something like the Prime Directive.. as often as you wanted to break it.. could turn into almost that situation: now they worship us..

        Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

        by Chris Reeves on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 08:39:16 PM PDT

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        •  I guess that works. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          walkshills, FloridaSNMOM

          But I would have found it more compelling if they hadn't tried to legitimize the spirituality surrounding the wormhole aliens by having Sisko share in it.  They should have forced him to deal with the ethical conundrum of accepting a mantle he knew to be nonsense for political reasons.  Instead they muddied the waters by having him explore his own spiritual feelings in all sorts of mystical ways when they could have done it more humbly and honestly.

          Democracy is a habit, not a circumstance.

          by Troubadour on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 08:47:03 PM PDT

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          •  Never thought of that way.. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Troubadour, FloridaSNMOM

            Most of that was in Season 7, and I took it far more about him exploring his heritage, since he knew his mother was a wormhole alien, then worshiping them or thinking of them as a religious concept;

            But it is interesting.  Actually, I find the whole fact that a Trek could engineer this kind of thought about character motivations to be a good sign for how well written it was ;)

            Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

            by Chris Reeves on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 08:49:14 PM PDT

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            •  What irks me is that I can imagine so many ways (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tmservo433, Dogs are fuzzy, splashy

              that Star Trek could continue to evolve and tell compelling stories on an even higher plane than DS9, but the owners of the franchise are cretinous corporate scum who have instead thrown it in a ditch and jumped on its bones with these Abrams movies.

              Democracy is a habit, not a circumstance.

              by Troubadour on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 08:52:33 PM PDT

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        •  Actually, the Q are far closer to what people (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tmservo433, Troubadour, FloridaSNMOM

          think of as gods as they have the ability to create a brand new universe that has all of the fossil records and everything in place despite the fact that it didn't even exist 5 minutes ago.  Remember, the prophets didn't even know what linear time was until Sisko explained it to them.

          You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

          by Throw The Bums Out on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 10:15:16 PM PDT

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          •  True, but to a primitive people (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Troubadour

            Anything more significantly advanced then they were would seem magical and unbelievable.  

            If time travel were possible, and I could go back 500 years with a suitcase full of penicillin or other anti-biotics, I might be seen as a deity

            Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

            by Chris Reeves on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 10:43:06 PM PDT

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            •  Though that doesn't really apply once a people (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Troubadour

              develop the concept of science fiction.  For example, if someone waved a magic wand and created entire buildings out of nothing most people would think "insanely advanced technology using TARDIS like (hyper)space compression to fit the moon sized machinery and power source necessary to do that into a thin wand".

              You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

              by Throw The Bums Out on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 12:40:36 AM PDT

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              •  Most people don't even conceive of science (0+ / 0-)

                let alone science fiction.  If someone waved a magic wand and created buildings of nothing and claimed to be an angel, most people who saw it would believe them.  Skeptical inquiries would come later, and would only persist if (a)the magician tolerated them rather than "smiting" the non-believers, and (b)the believers tolerated the questions rather than reacting violently to hearing the miracles they had witnessed questioned.

                Democracy is a habit, not a circumstance.

                by Troubadour on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 12:51:12 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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