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View Diary: The U.S., selflessly concerned about democracy in Venezuela, questions integrity of election result (233 comments)

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  •  Everyone should read Weisbrot (6+ / 0-)

    Mark Weisbrot, published in The Guardian:

    On Wednesday, the government of Spain, Washington's only significant ally supporting a "100% audit" reversed its position and recognised Maduro's election. Then the secretary general of the Organisation of American States (OAS), José Miguel Insulza, backed off his prior alignment with the Obama administration and recognised the election result.

    It was not just the left governments of Argentina, Brazil, Ecuador, Bolivia, Uruguay and others that had quickly congratulated Maduro on his victory; Mexico, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Haiti and other non-left governments had joined them. The Obama administration was completely isolated in the world.

    Do the apologists for the State Department in this thread realize just how far off the edge they are in this?  No one is with us in challenging the election.  

    Even from the standpoint of raw national self-interest, morality be damned, what the US has done and is doing makes no sense.  

    •  Spain has important business relationships (0+ / 0-)

      with Venezuela.  So do many of the other countries.

      Only the US really has no inter-dependency issues with Venezuela, solely due to our hegemonic power at present.  Also, only the US had its diplomat expelled just before the election to energize Maduro's lagging base.  

      The US has nothing to lose by risking bad relations with Venezuela because Venezuela is dependent on us, economically, not the other way around.  The other countries look to the US to do the "bad cop" routine they want to but can't.  We know this is true because they would be criticizing us forcefully, like they do often enough, instead of just changing their opinions.   Also, weakening Maduro's ability to obtain cooperation from his own government and allies can only help our interests in defending liberal democracy as a model for governance when faced by the challenges of a credible alternative in the radical democracy forms of government which have been useful in redistributing wealth in those countries, but have eliminated or endangered basic individual rights in the process.  

      •  No interdepency? (0+ / 0-)

        You mean besides them supplying a significant portion of our oil? You mean despite the fact that all of Latin America is looking at our treatment of Venezuela as an indicator of whether we are a nation to be looked up to or despised?

        As I said elsewhere, we are judged not based on how we treat those governments we like, but on how we treat those we despise.  

        There are no countries in Latin America who want us to be the "bad cop." They know the bad cop first-hand, the nation that overthrows legally-elected governments, supports and arming death squads, and demands preferential treatment for American companies even as they poison the land with the cyanide from gold mining and the crude oil from the petroleum industry.

    •  The key thing here is not only that they are not (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CharlesII

      challenging it, they are accepting it as valid knowing it will piss off the biggest bully on the planet.

      "Paid Activist" is an oxymoron.

      by JesseCW on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 04:49:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You know what, Charles? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tony Situ

      On further reflection on yours and other comments, it makes even more sense, but  it a more Machiavellian way than my idealistic interpretations.

      There is likely to be a coup in Venezuela sometime against Maduro.  The narrow and challenged result of his election means he is much weaker than Chavez politically, but he still has to deal with bad feelings in the military, which guarantees his office, and will have to cut oil export spending on social goals in order to re-invest in the dilapidated oil industry. (chavez boosted support in the short term by not investing at all in the oil industry that provides his social spending revenue, hoping to be able to do it again later when he was stronger politically to cut back on social spending only then.) The coup will not receive any support from the US, but it will be in American interests nonetheless.

      By not recognizing the election, it means Obama can still support any new democratic government that might result from a coup without violating any laws or international protocol or agreements or Democratic platform values.  That or Maduro will have to make major policy concessions beforehand to receive Obama's blessings in order to stave off a coup.  Metternich himself would be congratulating Obama now.  Aren't you?

      •  There are no bad feelings in the military (0+ / 0-)

        And if there is a coup against Maduro, everyone will blame the US and Obama, whether they're involved or not.

        This is a disaster for US influence. Sadly, Americans like yourself are too blind to see it.

        Try turning the situation around: imagine that the Russians have demanded that the US recount the Romney-Obama election, claiming (with considerably more justification than we have in criticizing Venezuela) that US elections are filled with irregularities and an insecure voting system. They refuse to the election of Obama until the votes are recounted, even though there's no reason to believe that a recount would change the result. Since we now (in this imaginary scenario) know that the Russians were responsible for installing George W. Bush in 2000 by corrupting our Supreme Court, we take very seriously the possibility that they could foment a coup against Barack Obama.

        Exactly how much do we love them?  

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