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  •  how many irish catholics were there? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vcmvo2

    how many engaged in violence? thanks.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 11:32:00 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Ah ah ah -- That's what I said. (0+ / 0-)

      For that matter, how many conservatives have bombed federal buildings?

      Yet -- here on DK, you'd think we're all just waiting for somebody to walk along so we can shoot or bomb them.

      When political disputes and passions arise, those who instigate and those who get caught up will look in many ways like the people who surround them.

      And they will be a minority.
      Most people have other things to do with their lives.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 11:40:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  but again (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        vcmvo2

        given the legitimate grievances that so many irish catholics had, why did so relative few resort to terrorism? why them?

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 11:46:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Now that's a good question. (0+ / 0-)

          Along the lines of why the bolsheviks, etc.

          My guess is that most people prefer not to get evil with one another.

          I prefer to think of that as the norm, and, instead, focus on why so many people fell in line with the Nazis, the KKK, etc.

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 12:27:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  and that's my point (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            vcmvo2

            the norm, even for those living lives similar to those who become violent, is not to become violent. so why do these specific individuals become the anomaly? there is no amswer.

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 12:33:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I think that's one level too simplistic. (0+ / 0-)

              Even Martin Luther King admitted that he could condone violence if non-violent methods failed and failed again.

              I suspect there is something to being part of a group that believes itself to be wronged.  Get wronged enough, feel helpless enough, feel angry enough, and you want to do something about it. Sometimes it's a few, sometimes it's not so few.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 12:46:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Their friends and neighbors (2+ / 0-)

          They came from relatively few places.  They were steeped in the stories, myths, legends of grievance.  Even for most of these it's a pastime.  Probably most have heard the stories so often and heard the empty threats so often they don't even take themselves seriously.  But a few will and a few who don't know any better assume the others are serious when they're just crying in their beer.  People who need a place to put their grievance connect with a place that has a grievance.  It's like putting the individually harmless elements of a bomb together.

          •  but it isn't (0+ / 0-)

            put the parts of a bomb together and you have a bomb. put these parts of a life together, and the vast vast majority of the time you still won't have a bomber.

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 12:35:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's more complicated (0+ / 0-)

              because we don't know how to identify all the individual components and triggers.  But think of gang violence.  In many cities it's sporadic and in the background but in Chicago it's almost become the norm in some neighborhoods.  So it could be that you go from the least mentally stable and the most easily influenced to the average guy depending on how deeply the neighborhood is infested with the culture of violence.   I don't think it's unexplainable.  Obviously, you can't explain why it happens in every individual.  

    •  You wouldn't profile all Irish Catholics (0+ / 0-)

      But you would have profiled Irish Catholics from certain neighborhoods in specific cities which were known to harbor actively recruiting terror cells and sympathizers.

      •  so (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        vcmvo2

        you'd profle specific chechens from specific neighborhoods in kyrgyzstan?

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 12:30:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sure (0+ / 0-)

          I'm sure the Russians are doing exactly that.  That's probably how they came across these folks.   Now, the FBI doesn't have infinite resources so they probably had no reason to do that anymore than they would have profiled specific neighborhoods in Belfast but I wouldn't be surprised if the Brits didn't have them looking at some specific Irish gathering places in Chicago or Boston back in the '70s.  Whether it's drug gangs, mobsters, or terrorists, you'd be doing pretty much the same thing except that the terrorists have the excuse of a cause for their criminality so you're looking at motivation in addition to criminal activity.  

          •  except (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            vcmvo2

            that these two were condemned by their own family, particularly on religious grounds. if you can't profile them within their own family, how do you profile their neighborhood?

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 12:48:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm talking profile not beyond a reasonable doubt (0+ / 0-)

              You can profile neighborhoods on any number of factors.  Market research alone can tell you amazing amounts of information on the kinds of people who live in each census tract.  Cops profile neighborhoods all the time for types of crimes.  Terrorism isn't that different.  What is different here is that you have refugees who moved away from one of these neighborhoods you could profile into Cambridge, MA so they did not fit the profile for Cambridge.  So you probably had a hybrid thing going on with these folks.  They brought their profile with them and some set of triggers set it off.  

              Had they been from Belfast back in the '70s and moved into some neighborhood in Boston known to sympathize with the IRA, the FBI could have profiled them more easily.  

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