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View Diary: The Constitution as Catch-22 (30 comments)

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  •  But (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mayfly, shaharazade

    if rights are defined by the ability to enforce them, then the authority of a democratic society to create and enforce rights democratically is no more legitimate than the authority of a military dictator to create and enforce rights by fiat.

    If you start by denying any metaphysical legitimacy of rights, why do you get to assert metaphysical legitimacy for democracy?

    What are you doing to fight the dangerous and counterproductive error of treating dirtbag terrorist criminals as though they were comic book supervillains? I can't believe we still have to argue this shit, let alone on Daily Kos.

    by happymisanthropy on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 01:57:19 PM PDT

    •  Who says that democracy needs metaphysical (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      84thProblem

      legitimacy? Democracy works.

      Well, all right, as Churchill repeated from some earlier wise person, Democracy is known to be the worst system of government known to man, excepting all of the others that have been tried from time to time.

      My mother taught high-school civics, and she would sometimes begin with the statement, "Everybody knows that aristocracy is the best possible form of government, as long as you and your friends get to be the aristocrats." Tyranny, oligarchy, aristocracy, and so on seem delightful to the utterly selfish when they are the tyrants, oligarchs, aristocrats, etc., but are highly objectionable to everybody else. Democracy is far less objectionable, even if nobody is satisfied with it. In fact, the principal objections to democracy and human rights come from the minority of the utterly selfish.

      Every tyranny claims metaphysical legitimacy. Read Plato (The Laws and The Republic) and Hegel (The Phenomenology of the Spirit), in particular. Fichte, too (Lectures to the German People), although he is not so well known today. Here is his take on the Prussian education system.

      You must fashion [the person], and fashion him in such a way that he simply cannot will otherwise than what you wish him to will.
      And Dominionists and Theonomists like R. J. Rushdoony (The Institutes of Biblical Law), a leading proponent of Christian homeschooling.

      We are much better off without faith-based politics.

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 04:40:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If "working" is sufficient justification (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        shaharazade

        then if a democracy falls to fascism, there's no cause to mourn it, it simply "didn't work," and fascism is working better.

        What are you doing to fight the dangerous and counterproductive error of treating dirtbag terrorist criminals as though they were comic book supervillains? I can't believe we still have to argue this shit, let alone on Daily Kos.

        by happymisanthropy on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 06:18:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Adding this to my little collection of quotes - (0+ / 0-)
        In fact, the principal objections to democracy and human rights come from the minority of the utterly selfish.

        -7.38, -5.38 (that's a surprise)

        Why must we struggle to protect the accomplishments of Democrats of the past from Democrats of the present? -- cal2010

        by 84thProblem on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 05:36:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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