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View Diary: Struggle and Faith: How Occupy Has Taught Me To Tolerate Religion (231 comments)

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  •  I'm an atheist, but a quiet one. (10+ / 0-)

    I was raised Catholic and fell away from the church, and ultimately away from believing in God.  Though I dislike the leaders of many organized faiths, I do have a strong appreciation for what that faith can mean for believers.  It can provide a solid framework for doing good in this world, and strong, steady support during difficult times.  Local churches can be the anchor of a strong community, and improve things for everyone, member or not.   It's unfortunate that some people can't see that side of things.  I guess you could think of them as Westboro Atheists.

    •  That allusion is offensive to me, as a life-long (5+ / 0-)

      atheist (since around age eight).

      I am not a "Westboro Atheist".

      I am not a believer in religion or any sort of supra-natural (not supernatural) being.

      I do not try and convert anyone to my way of thinking, although I freely admit I believe the entire world would be better off without organized religion.

      I do not degrade or offend others with differing belief systems.

      Live and let live has always been my motto, I only wish it were so for everyone.


      "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

      by Angie in WA State on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 09:53:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Since that shoe does not fit (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JDsg, alain2112

        Why assume it was constructed for you to wear?

        Do you feel every self-declared atheist is above criticism?

        •  If we are to have a respectful discussion of (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tonedevil, Rieux, Simian

          religious beliefs vs non-belief, then when someone says

          Local churches can be the anchor of a strong community, and improve things for everyone, member or not.   It's unfortunate that some people can't see that side of things.  I guess you could think of them as Westboro Atheists.
          and I am an atheist who believes that organized religion serves no purpose, then I think that, yes, that person is talking about me.

          Your second question begs this question: What criticism is there to lay at the feet of self-declared atheists, other than to note that they do not believe in a supra-natural, omnipotent being?


          "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

          by Angie in WA State on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 10:51:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then the problem lies with you (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            alain2112, gene s

            People are free to discuss their personal experiences. You don't get to veto their comments because - even when it is clear they do not apply to you - you perversely insist they are aimed at you.

            What criticism is there to lay at the feet of self-declared atheists, other than to note that they do not believe in a supra-natural, omnipotent being?
            Way to dodge the point. The point is this: Even athiests can be assholes.
            •  I did not "veto" any coment. Point of fact: (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tonedevil, Simian

              I have often Rec'd comments by lineatus for years now.

              But this one comment struck a chord with me. So I responded.

              I clearly explained why that comment DID APPLY to me.

              You asked a question, I asked one in return. That is not "dodging the question". It's called 'arguing the points' and 'debate', in most places.

              Yes, even atheists can be assholes. What's the point of saying that? That I am an asshole? Yes, on occasion, I am. But not in this case.


              "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

              by Angie in WA State on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:52:58 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Fine. Delete "Veto". Insert "complain about" (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                alain2112

                No, you described why you insist a "if teh shoe fits" comment applies to you. If you feel the shoe fits, then the problem lies with your foot.

                And yes, you did dodge the point of the question. The "if the shoe fits" comment you complain about is predicated on the fact that yes, even atheists can be assholes. It was not, as your dodge would have it, that to be an atheists is to be an asshole. Simple.

          •  Oh come on! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JDsg

            Some of the rock stars of the recent "new" atheists have been rather militant and absolutist about their philosophy. So much new (heh!) atheist writing focuses on and attacks the strident Abrahamic faith-based religions. That's fair game, I suppose. But people of more liberal traditions find themselves lumped in with the crazies all the time. So, I guess all I can say is, how does it feel?

            Not good, eh? On the other hand, it's OK to say things like "religion serves no purpose" or "...I believe the entire world would be better off without religion". I wonder how that makes someone feel who has dedicated their life to helping the community! In addition, as well explained in this diary, some organized religion did indeed bring about good. It did "serve a purpose" in spite of what you believe. In fact, it caused the writer to re-evaluate their thinking in regards to religion. I think that's a good thing. You state that you've been an atheist since you were 8. Yet, you are upset by certain atheists being called "Westboro". I don't know if you ever frequent some of the atheist blogs, but comments like that are hurled at the spiritual or religious community constantly.

      •  Was not directed at you or others like you and me. (2+ / 0-)

        I have my non-belief, and I don't push it.  You don't either.

        I'm contrasting with those who feel it necessary to insult people of faith, who go out of their way to provoke.  As you say, you do not try to convert anyone to your way of thinking, nor do you degrade anyone for their beliefs.  Ergo, you are not a Westboro Atheist.  I don't think Christians (or Muslims or Jews or any believer) should be defined by the most extreme "believers" of their faith, nor should atheists or agnostics be defined by the loudest, most provocative voices on our side.

        I think we're saying the same thing, but perhaps I didn't clarify it well.

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