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View Diary: Armed gunmen ambush teachers in an Oregon school ... as a readiness test (306 comments)

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  •  Lee was NOT shot by live round loaded accidentally (0+ / 0-)

    There was a bullet from a previous firing of the pistol that was lodged in the barrel.  The powder charge from the blank forced the bullet out of the barrel:

    "due to a mix up during earlier filming of gun close ups, a bullet had become lodged in the barrel without anyone noticing"

    I also question the anecdote about the recruit being issued live rounds.  They do not look the same, and anyone with military weapons training would know that, and that would be the armorer that issues the ammunition.  Live rounds have a bullet on the end of the cartridge (duh) and blank rounds have the end of the cartridge crimped closed like the unopened petals of a flower.  For further information, there is also the "dummy round", which led to Lee's death.  A dummy round has a bullet, but no powder and NO PRIMER, and are further marked with paint (usually black or yellow) to denote "dummy", but otherwise they are identical to standard issue ammunition. The reason that dummy rounds are NEVER to be loaded with a live primer is because the charge of the primer creates sufficient pressure to force the dummy round's bullet into the barrel, but not enough pressure to actually drive it out of the barrel (the aforementioned "squib" shot, although a squib can also be the result of incomplete ignition of a genuine live round's powder, or insufficient powder loaded during manufacture--exceedingly rare).  The ultimate cause of Lee's death was that an obviously unqualified prop man removed the powder from a cartridge but left the live primer in place which forced the bullet into the barrel, waiting for a powder charge to send it on its way.  If a live round had been loaded instead of a blank, the barrel would likely have burst upon firing.

    Doesn't make the incident in Halfway, Oregon any less stupid, but mistakenly loading a live round instead of a blank round is way, way, way down the list of reasons why.

    •  You "question" shit that has actually happened (12+ / 0-)

      and which has caused deaths.

      I also question the anecdote about the recruit being issued live rounds.  They do not look the same, and anyone with military weapons training would know that, and that would be the armorer that issues the ammunition.
      Algrim's death was the third of three shooting mistakes that have left Marines injured or dead at Camp Pendleton since 2000. In the previous two cases, and prosecutors say in this one as well, Marines who should have been using blanks had put live ammo in their guns.
      Cpl. Seth Algrim and  Pfc. Jeremy R. Purcel were both killed outright and Lance Cpl. Waightstill Avery was seriously wounded.  This all happened in just six years at just one base (granted, a big one).

      Wash. Judge Tells Cops To Return Man’s Marijuana Or Be Found In Contempt

      by JesseCW on Wed May 01, 2013 at 01:58:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was 10 years in the airborne infantry (0+ / 0-)

        I was present for tens of thousands of rounds downrange.  I was OIC of an armory ( lucky me).  The Army procedures make such an accident damn near impossible and it would end the career of every officer and NCO in that chain of command.  I have no idea how the marines do it, but I am well versed in the army way, and issuance and custody of ammunition for training is taken very seriously and live rounds are deadly ordnance and deadly ordnance is inspected twice.  The only way I can see it happening is a trooper breaking regs and not turning in unused ammo from a previous exercise and then bringing it back and loading it into the mag himself.

        •  The Marines were equally convinced it was (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pgm 01

          impossible.

          Each and every time it happened, they remained sure it was impossible.

          It certainly did not end the career of every officer and NCO in that chain of command, although I certainly doubt it was seen as a bright point.

          The possibility of failure exists in all human systems.

          Wash. Judge Tells Cops To Return Man’s Marijuana Or Be Found In Contempt

          by JesseCW on Wed May 01, 2013 at 06:59:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  And you are so sure that Pine Eagle Charter School (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Silvia Nightshade

          used the same or substantially similar protocols because?

          You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

          by Throw The Bums Out on Thu May 02, 2013 at 06:19:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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